Committed capital is a promise with a date attached, and the date can move. For about a year, Asaf Darash ran Regpack as if a $2M angel commitment had already landed. He hired staff, leased offices and covered the gap with his own money and loans while the closing slipped from next week to next month.
Then the investor went bankrupt, and the money never arrived.
Asaf faced a choice many scaling CEOs meet in some form. He could keep looking for capital to support the company he had built, or rebuild the company around the revenue it actually had. He chose to bootstrap, cutting Regpack from 12 or 13 people to 3 and building until the technology was proven at scale.
The decision cost him a year of 14-hour days and daily self-doubt. It also kept the company in his and his team's hands. His reasoning, and the price he paid, show how a founder can weigh outside capital against cost structure and readiness.
Regpack is onboarding software for education and service-based organizations. It handles the gathering of information, the selection of services and the payment. It began as an experiment: Asaf took an idea from his doctoral research, a way to build software with no constants, and put it in front of organizations he knew. When those early clients started asking about payment processing, he saw a business.
Those clients came through his network. Growth beyond it meant marketing, and marketing was expensive. His first instinct was a familiar one: raise money so the company could grow faster.
An angel investor agreed to commit $2M. The closing kept stretching out, and Asaf funded the company with his own money and loans while he waited. Because the investment was coming, he sized the company to it. "We have employees as if we have two million dollars, we have offices as if we have two million dollars," he said.
This is where the risk builds. A signed commitment feels like certainty, so payroll and leases get sized to it. Each month of delay adds fixed cost to the business and debt to the founder. When the commitment fails, the company is left carrying a structure its revenue was never built to support.
When the bankruptcy news came, Asaf put the choice plainly: "Do we continue this and look for a different investor? Or do we bootstrap this?"
The first option preserved the company as it stood. It treated the investor as the problem and assumed another one would close the gap. The second treated the collapse as a question of readiness: was Regpack ready to deserve outside money at all?
Asaf concluded it was not yet. He believed the technology still needed work, and that the team needed to understand better how it should serve these organizations. His standard for readiness was specific. Before going back to investors, he wanted to know the product worked "not for four organizations, for four hundred organizations."
That standard changes what a future raise would represent. Money raised at four organizations funds a promise. Money raised at four hundred backs something proven to work at scale.
The constraints narrowed the choice further. Revenue was real but could not sustain the operation he had built. A year of personal savings and loans was already spent, and he had about two months left on his postdoc. Waiting for a new investor without cutting deeply meant carrying the full cost structure on money he no longer had.
He was candid about how the decision felt: "I made a decision which today I think was correct. At the time I didn't like it at all."
The execution was blunt. "So I fired everyone and I gave options to two people," Asaf said. He kept the two he judged best for the business and gave them a stake in the outcome. Regpack went from 12 or 13 people to 3.
The tradeoff was capacity for survival. Three people now carried work a team sized for $2M had been hired to do. "And we worked fourteen hours a day for a year," he said.
The heaviest cost was personal: "I felt I made the wrong decision. I felt like a failure every single morning." A decision that proves right in hindsight can feel wrong every day it is carried out, and the CEO has to keep executing before the evidence arrives. Asaf recalled his then-wife asking one morning, after another sleepless night, whether he really wanted this. He said he did, and she told him she was with him.
The evidence did arrive. Asaf named the point when he knew the company would make it: "When we hit the one hundred thousand revenue per month." Regpack was also growing about 10% month over month. The signal was concrete, a revenue level and a growth rate, both visible in the business itself.
The bootstrap year left a lasting operating habit. Asaf contrasts Regpack with technology companies where money can feel abstract: "for us money is very real, even though we make a lot of money today." He ties that discipline to sharing success with employees.
Ownership also changed the math of any future transaction. "And today the business is worth a lot and it's all ours," he said. Regpack is exploring a merger or sale with larger businesses, and Asaf says the numbers under discussion are far beyond what his share would have been with investors on the cap table. In his framing, dilution is the difference between an outcome that changes a family's future and one that is merely pleasant.
He is clear that outside capital has its place. He calls VC money great for businesses that need heavy early firepower, such as demanding technology or large marketing efforts. His concern is timing. In his view, investors often need results faster than a business can mature, and some companies never become real businesses as a result. He offers that as a view formed on his own path, without applying it to every company.
The same demand for proof shaped how Regpack learned to sell. The company first marketed the product for everything it could do, serving camps, schools, courses, after-school programs and more. "We were not getting leads, we were not getting sales," Asaf said.
A client explained the problem with a restaurant analogy. A restaurant that claims to serve steak, sushi, pasta and Mediterranean food signals that it does none of them well. Prospects judged Regpack the same way: a system that could do everything seemed unlikely to handle their specific situation.
Regpack rebuilt its website so a visitor arriving through one vertical saw a product that appeared built only for that vertical. In a 50/50 split test, that version converted far better than the broad one, though Asaf gave no specific figure. Sales changed in parallel. Explaining everything the system could do lost deals, so the team stopped leading with the technology and raised other uses only after onboarding, once clients had seen the product work.
The deeper correction was to the founder's own frame. His ops manager said he was "blind to stupidity," unable to believe anyone would miss the logic. Asaf now treats that gap as a design constraint: "we are not our clientele. Like we're not building for ourselves."
The testing discipline cut both ways. His right-hand person, Calvin, pushed for years to add a free trial, and Asaf put him in charge of the test. After about two months, Calvin asked to turn it off. The trial attracted lower-tier clients who churned regardless of fit, while the highest-value clients still came through sales. Asaf still credits intuition as the start of every test: "if you just work based on data, like you'll do nothing."
Asaf's biggest leadership change came from a different event. At a later point, separate from the investor collapse, he burned out badly enough that he could not get out of bed for two weeks. He realized the way he was operating would not hold.
He responded the way Regpack approaches most problems, with a test. He gave his team full authority and watched what happened. The results were better than when he intervened in everything, because people felt responsible and accountable, and they delivered.
Today he sets the goal, approves the budget the team asks for, and steps back. He describes his earlier pattern plainly: he was "involved in nearly everything and it hindered the business extremely because I'm only one person."
Asaf presents bootstrapping as the right call for his situation. The judgments behind it apply to any CEO carrying costs against committed capital, whether that capital has failed or has simply not yet arrived.
The first is to separate committed money from money in the bank. Regpack's cost structure was built on the commitment, and the correction was a cut from 12 or 13 people to 3. Fixed costs sized to existing revenue leave room to decide. Fixed costs sized to a promise leave very little.
The second is to ask whether the business is ready for outside money. Asaf's test was concrete: proof at four hundred organizations, not four. Framing a funding gap as a search for the next investor skips that question.
The third is to name the signal that shows the decision is working. For Regpack, that was $100K in monthly revenue and about 10% month-over-month growth. A signal like that lets a CEO keep executing through the stretch when the decision still feels wrong.
Asaf paid for his choice with a year of 14-hour days and daily doubt. In return, he kept a company he and his team still own, and a financial discipline that outlasted the crisis.
Asaf Darash is the founder and CEO of Regpack, onboarding software that manages registration, service selection and payments for school districts, schools, camps, courses, after-school programs and other education and service-based organizations. He holds a PhD and was a Fulbright and visiting scholar at UC Berkeley.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/asafdarash/
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
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The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY:
00:00 Firing Everyone to Survive
01:19 From Academia to RegPack
06:11 Learning Beyond Technical Expertise
10:02 Mastering Sales and Marketing
15:00 Building Infinite Product Flexibility
21:02 Why Feature Marketing Failed
25:11 Marketing in Four Seconds
30:14 Customers Want Clear Actions
35:00 Free Trials Attract Wrong Customers
40:49 Bootstrapping With Two Teammates
45:43 How AI Changed Technology
50:23 Burnout Forced Leadership Change
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Asaf Darash (00:00)
So I fired everyone and I gave options to two people that and we worked fourteen hours a day for a year. I felt like a failure every single morning when we hit the one hundred thousand revenue per month. For us money is very real, even though we make a lot of money today.
Jeff Holman (00:16)
Welcome
back, everybody, to the Breakout CEO podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman. I'm with Intellectual Strategies, a law firm that works with startups and scaling companies. I get to work with a lot of cool CEOs along the way. So I can't tell you their stories because that information of my clients is confidential. So instead of that, I bring on CEOs who are running successful companies. They're scaling and growing companies in cool ways. And we get to hear some behind the scenes things with those CEOs. And today we get a special episode here with Asaf Darash.
Soft, welcome to the show.
Asaf Darash (00:47)
Thank you for having
Jeff Holman (00:49)
Yeah, it's great to have you here. we we just did our icebreaker segment, talked a little philosophically about a few things and and I love it because it just brings it brings dimension into the show so that we're not just talking about, well, I started a business and then I, you know, grew the business and then I had some problems, and then I resolved the problems and I'm still running the business. You know what I mean? There there's like depth to it. And and so I really appreciate you coming on to share both some of that personal stuff in the icebreaker segment.
And and some of the business stuff we're gonna talk about talk about right now. So you've been doing this for a while and and you started RegPack, I forget the date, but it's been like fifteen or eighteen years since you started this, I think. Is that is that time frame about right? twelve
Asaf Darash (01:32)
Twelve. I think twelve.
Jeff Holman (01:33)
years. I got my math wrong. Okay. Keep correcting me as we go throughout this episode. So this is all about your company, so you've got the right information.
But but you started this in a way that maybe not a lot of our CEOs that we've talked with have done. You you came from academia. what was the you know, what was the push to get into academia and what was kind of the prompt for you to say, Hey, wait a second, I might wanna I might wanna spin out of academia and start a business?
Asaf Darash (02:01)
I I started like I I did my my BA and then my AMA and then I did my PhD and I did my postdoc. my PhD dealt with how can you create I got a PhD in computer science, how can you create computerized systems that have no constants in them, which was believed to be impossible. and there's a really nice story about my my mentor when I ex when I told I told him, like, this is the C this is what I want to write about. He's like, You're gonna fail because it's impossible. It's like, okay, watch me. It's like that was like
the the sentence I needed. and so I built a prototype around it and I and I wrote a bunch of papers and so forth. And then I went to my postdoc and and I elaborated on it. And and going into business was actually natural and not natural for me. Because on one hand I came from a family that is very business oriented. like my my father, all my my brothers, they all have businesses and and and very big ones actually.
Jeff Holman (03:00)
What kind of businesses do they run?
Asaf Darash (03:02)
my father mainly does hotels and real estate.
Jeff Holman (03:06)
Okay.
Asaf Darash (03:07)
I think he has like seven hotels now I know. Okay. and then so so I I I grew up in in an environment that it makes sense to build a business. But on the other hand, my mother was was was a professor and so forth. So I had like both sides and I went in the beginning to that side.
The academia because I was very interested in the intellectual understanding of computers and and how they function and what's possible, what's not possible. I personally think that computers are magical, right? Yeah. I like when when people ask me why, think of it like this, like an architect, he he plans a building, but the building doesn't exist, right? A computer programmer, if he writes the building, if he draws the building, the building exists.
That's pretty magical, right?
Jeff Holman (04:03)
And he does it with zeros and ones and like it's
Asaf Darash (04:05)
So it's pretty magical. So I really connected to computers from a very early age. my my I I think I wrote my first program on an Atari computer at the age of like seven or something. Yeah. so so that was where I was going. and and I also I I got a Fulbright scholarship and it was in Berkeley and so forth. So I it was a very, it's like a very promising academic career, right?
At the same time, I actually worked worked in the administrative office at Berkeley to, you know, make money because we had a family already and all that. Yeah. so when when we sat like we were sitting down one day with my mentor and so forth and and talking, and he was like, Okay, so so this is like you proved something like really great, but who cares? Like what can be done with that? And and that really like caused me to think, okay, so how do you use this?
And this connected to my administrative work at Berkeley. It was like, okay, so how do you create like how do you use something like this? And and the whole process of business logic that is connected to admission and payments and scheduling and service-based businesses was exactly the place that needed this endless flexibility that that this thesis created. And and I decided, okay, let's let's try to see if this can be even built into something real.
That actually people use. And in the beginning it was just like I would say a game, more like it was just to see if it would work. Just to test it, just to see if
Jeff Holman (05:39)
Just to test it, just to say hey. There is an application for this.
Asaf Darash (05:44)
Yeah. But how could you create an application for this that is like that's actually usable, right? And then we implemented it into a bunch of organizations that I I had connection with. And I told them, like, do you want to try it? And they said, Yeah, let's try it out. And it
Jeff Holman (06:02)
At this stage were you thinking this is a business or were you thinking No no no this is proving that there's an application where I can utilize my academic research?
Asaf Darash (06:11)
And and frankly, I just wanted to learn UI, I wanted to learn UX, I wanted to learn these things. So I I I did that whole thing and it really started to pan out. Like people really liked it and said that it works really well and said, Can you build this and can you add this? And and then they started like, How can we process payments with this and how can we do this? And I was like, wait a second. I
Jeff Holman (06:33)
Was this just you at the time? Your your your your build or did you have just you? So it's not like you had a team because you weren't this wasn't even a business.
Asaf Darash (06:41)
No, this was it was wasn't a business. Like I yeah I messing around, like I I I took a server, I I played around with it. I was like I was more interested in in the technology than in anything, right? and then when when they started like talking about payments and so forth, I connected with a few few payment processors and I understood, wait a second, there's there's a lot of money that can be made here. And and that's when I decided.
Then there was like a fork in my life where I could have decided, do I wanna go the professor route or do I wanna build a business?
Jeff Holman (07:18)
How far into your schooling and professor life were you at this point? I mean, were you you were like associate professor teaching or
Asaf Darash (07:24)
I was teaching already and I was finishing my postdoc. I was like the the next stage was basically getting a position.
Jeff Holman (07:32)
This is this is pivotal for you. What did your parents think? You got your dad who's doing business, your mom who's a professor. Was there a little bit of discussion there?
Asaf Darash (07:39)
No, because listen what happened. Like we were in the US, right, doing my my finishing my my postdoc and and my my then wife was finishing her postdoc and then I told her like okay so let's find positions in the US and she was like no we're going back to Israel I was like no I don't wanna be in the in academia in Israel like I I like it here and in Israel I don't like the academia and she was like no but I don't want to live here and that just made the decision for me. I was like, Okay, so let's build a
Jeff Holman (08:08)
Well,
okay.
Asaf Darash (08:10)
Let's build a business.
So 'cause we had like two more years for our pro postdoc. So I started the business in the US. and and and you know, the rest is history, I guess.
Jeff Holman (08:20)
Okay. That was that was about twelve years ago when you you know, I I so I was I thought you were gonna say, because this is real I can relate to this i in a in a sense. You know, I I got my engineering degree and people are like, What you know, w did you always want to be an engineer? I'm like, No, I don't really want to be an engineer. I just thought my engineering degree would be a great lead in to be in business. And then I got sidetracked and went to law school and now I'm kind of making full circle and I, you know, do a lot of business law and startups and s so so I always had this thought that
You know, engineering that just seems like a good solid foundation. Seems is I thought you might say ear earlier on, you went into academia knowing you wanted to go into business, but it sounds like that was just a like a something that came up a along the path.
Asaf Darash (09:06)
Totally.
Jeff Holman (09:07)
Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. So what what kind of so your dad had run a business, your brothers run businesses, but how did you feel pretty comfortable and confident at that point in time that, hey, I can start a business. That won't be that hard.
Asaf Darash (09:21)
Totally. Like that was like a no brainer for me. It was easy.
Jeff Holman (09:24)
Okay. So you just you you you're familiar enough with the environment where you said, This is gonna work out. Were there w we can get into the details of the business and how you built it, but was there anything from that point in your life that as you look back, you're like, Okay, maybe there are a few things I didn't quite understand completely about how businesses run and there were a few surprises along the way, but you you've probably resolved them. Anything like that that just at a high level?
Asaf Darash (09:48)
Of course, there was a lot. Like I I didn't like I I didn't understand the the process of sales. I didn't understand that like finances I I knew because I had a degree in c economics, right? Financing and all that was very easy for me. But the and and and obviously like computer science and coding and all that, but the whole the whole part of of sales was new to me. the the whole part of
marketing I understood, but like digital marketing was something I needed to learn. And here I think the the advantages that someone that is used to studying really come forward is that you just sit down and you and you learn it.
Jeff Holman (10:36)
You just learn it. Yeah, you just learn it.
Asaf Darash (10:38)
You just
sit down and learn what needs to be learned and then you know how it works and now you start implementing and then you see what works and what doesn't work and and the whole concept of of of research really helps here because you constantly monitor yourself, measure, understand what's working, increment incremental changes and so forth.
Jeff Holman (11:06)
Well, so what was your vision at that point in time when you said, okay, I'm gonna start a business. I've I've given this program out or this application out to a few friends or organizations that I know of. things are going well, it seems. W what was your idea of what the business would be at that point in time? Just a quick note about our guests. I host the Breakout CEO podcast to share behind the scenes insights from scaling businesses. As an attorney, I see the real challenges leaders face long before success becomes public. But
Client stories have to stay confidential. So we invite guest CEOs to share their own moments of struggle and success. I'm so grateful to our guests and my team at Intellectual Strategies for making this show possible. Now, let's get back to the show.
Asaf Darash (11:52)
I still have the same idea on on Regpack. I think it would be the number one onboarding software in the world.
Jeff Holman (12:00)
Okay. And when you say onboarding, this is for this is for organization. I think on your website you said that you've processed like a over a billion dollars in transactions and you've got like six or seven thousand organizations that are using your using your application. so this is onboarding for organizations that that have people signing up for camps or groups or
Asaf Darash (12:22)
We focus on the service-based business and we really are very, very strong in the education service-based business. So it's like school districts, schools, events, courses, camps, after school programs, gap years, educational tourism, faith-based communities, stuff like that.
Jeff Holman (12:44)
Okay. And so the idea was
Asaf Darash (12:45)
process of like gathering the information, selecting the services that you want, paying for them and and so forth. Like going from the whole cycle, we take care of all the onboarding part, including the money. We don't take care of the logistics. We don't take care of the operations.
Jeff Holman (13:03)
Yeah. What what was out there at the at the time? What were you competing against or trying to trying to
Asaf Darash (13:08)
It's
still out there. Regpack is very unique in the fact that I listed all those for you. Most companies can't do that because what they do is they select a segment or a vertical, and that's what they specialize in. And the the reason is is a technological reason. They have a limitation because they have constants. They create a software that is specific for camps, specific for courses, specific for educational tourism, right? In Regpack, there
are no constants. There's is there's no difference between creating a s a process for this type or this type or this type.
Jeff Holman (13:43)
Go into that a little bit more for me 'cause I I I think maybe myself and our audience would would want to know what w what are you 'cause this is your PhD thesis that you wrote on, so you clearly you're the expert here. dumb it down for me and maybe the audience a little bit. What do you mean when you say constants and versus no constants?
Asaf Darash (14:02)
So think of it like this: like if you I'll give the the simplest example, right? you need to ask a bunch of questions first name, last name, gender, age, and address, right? Yeah. How would most applications do that? They would actually create fields that are connected to the age, the gender, and so forth. Yeah. Right. And and then you run into problems of like, okay, now we have
Not two genders, we have three genders or four genders, right? Okay. So and they can't deal with that unless a programmer steps in and fixes it, right? Add
Jeff Holman (14:38)
You gotta go add options to your form.
Asaf Darash (14:40)
options and so forth. In RenchPack, it doesn't work that way. In VengePack, there are no fields, there are no options. You create a form, and as you're creating the form, the system is automatically creating the database in the back end that is unique for you.
Jeff Holman (14:57)
Okay.
Asaf Darash (14:57)
So that you can create.
Any type of question that you want in any type of structure, and then you can create rules that are connected to every single question, every single product, and so forth. And the system, from the system perspective, it doesn't know that this is age or gender or address. It only knows that this is a field. Right? And then basically what happens is that you have no constants, right? Because you understood, like the system doesn't know what it is.
You're you're remov the system only takes care of the structure, of the form, and not of the meaning. So you can put in any type of meaning that you want.
Jeff Holman (15:34)
And that makes it that that means you can you can so I see so the onboarding application makes sense because you're essentially have all different types of organizations with all different types of information that they might be think is important to them and and you essentially are giving them a a blank slate but with functionality that will adapt to them as they build whatever they want to build into
Asaf Darash (15:57)
Correct. So so from people that are were mainly working on this application could do seventy percent of what I want. This application could do eighty percent of what I want. Reg is always a hundred percent what you want.
Jeff Holman (16:09)
So from the user's perspective, they don't have to build out a a tech stack necessarily and piece together all the applications because yours will your yours will adapt across the board. Is that right?
Asaf Darash (16:22)
That's right.
Jeff Holman (16:22)
Okay. Okay. And so nobody else is doing that because you you were the first person to prove it out in your thesis. So is it still that way in the in the industry that you're you're operating in a kind of a a unique way compared to your competitors?
Asaf Darash (16:36)
Yes, very much so. And people have tried to copy Reg for the last ten years and failed.
Jeff Holman (16:43)
Are there other are there other industries or applications where people are beginning to adopt this approach? maybe not competing with you, but
Asaf Darash (16:51)
Finance
and in in insurance, they are starting to adopt similar type of thinking. but but from a technological standpoint, this is not trivial.
Jeff Holman (17:04)
Tell tell me about the initial build. How when you so you're you've built some stuff out, you've given it to people, you've made the decision to go all in on business. W what happened from there?
Asaf Darash (17:15)
So what happened from there is is reality punched us in the face, right? Where suddenly you have a really, really nice technology, but you need it to actually work in a way that end users, administrators, school directors can use it without understanding the technology, right? And they don't e they don't really care, right? They they really don't.
So things that that are easy for for a constant-based system, like you know, doing filters or searches and so forth, are very complex in this situation. So there were a lot of challenges around that. but we were lucky enough to have enough organizations and users that were that were very, very helpful.
In explaining to us what they need. And we were very attentive and open to listen to that. And that's how we build Reg today as well. We really listen to what people need, how they need it, and then and then we build it in the way that RegPAC works, where it's always taken care of only of the form and never of the meaning.
Jeff Holman (18:36)
Okay. What kind of what kind of questions were they coming to? What kind of feedback were you getting early on? Where I mean was it a a lot of onboarding or a lot of software applications, you know, they have an entire team to come in and say, We'll just build this out for you. You're you know, I've done it with my with my law firm. I have some onboarding tools that and and somebody built those out at one point and they said, Hey, here's how we build out our system. Were they coming back and asking you to help build out the system for them, or were they coming back saying, Hey, we just operate differently?
How do you adapt to what how we operate?
Asaf Darash (19:08)
way that we worked with the clients and we still work with them is that we give them a project manager. The project manager knows how to think in a data structure way, right? Okay. whereas normal no normally administrators don't think of the implications of doing something this way rather than that way. So the project manager, which which is not a developer, just like someone who understands how data works, builds it out in the system for them initially.
By the way, now we have AI do it automatically, which is really nice. You just upload your process and AI just builds it through the APIs of the system, which is really nice. and that way it makes sure that that they're not building something that that will will not work for them long run.
So they ask them like what is important for you in reporting, what's important for you in terms of filtering, what's important for you in in in all that's th those things. And basically they build it in a way that works for them best. They teach them what we do is we gamify the system in a way. We really teach them in every single step how they would think about things. And normally people after like the first three months, they feel very comfortable.
Jeff Holman (20:21)
Well, so I was gonna ask you with the with your customers and and having the kind of the program managers step in and help build this out, do your customers do they do they know the sophistication of this of the system that they're building on and do they appreciate that? Or do they just know that what you're doing i is kind of simplified and that it all happens in one system. They don't have to, you know, connect multiple systems together.
Asaf Darash (20:46)
We actually we actually try to hide the sophistication of the system as much as possible until they're actually ready to to to understand.
Jeff Holman (20:58)
I think you mentioned some marketing stuff to me, like this is this the marketing messaging that you were talking about before?
Asaf Darash (21:02)
Yeah, exactly. So it initially we were mar we were marketing Reg for what it is. Yeah. A system that can do all of these things and all of these abilities and so forth. And and it was terrible. Like we we were not getting leads, we were not getting sales and and and I didn't understand like what's going on. And I remember I I was talking to one of our clients and and they gave me a really good analogy to understand why this marketing strategy is not working. It was like if you go to a restaurant
And they tell you we serve steak and sushi and pasta, okay, and Mediterranean food. Yeah. Would you would you want to eat there? I'd like, no, they probably don't know how to make any of these. Okay. Right. And he was like, it's the exact same thing. They see that you can do all these things and they're like, there's no way that they can do my specific situation well. Yeah. And and more than that, education people, in in a sense, they need to
feel that that you for for lack of a better way of saying it, they need to feel that you understand them and you see them. Yeah. And doing that, if you come to them and tell them, So, how do you want to build it? They they're like, I don't know how to wanna build it. Like that's that's
Jeff Holman (22:18)
You're
the expert. You tell me how I should build it, right?
Asaf Darash (22:20)
You tell me how I should be building it. So so we changed our whole marketing strategy to the point that our website would detect which vertical they're interested in, and then it would d remove all the other verticals from the website as if we only do that vertical. Yeah. So let's say they come in through the after school like pillar page, the website would adapt and from here everything seems like Regpack is built.
Only for after school. Okay. Like it doesn't do anything else.
Jeff Holman (22:52)
So you would literally just hide sections or or direct them into different parts of the website.
Asaf Darash (22:57)
Hide sections, hide menus and so forth. And what happened is suddenly we were getting a ton of leads. Because they were like, Okay, this is for me. This is the program that I was looking for. And then we were doing it it wrong in sales where we were like, Okay, the lead comes in and we were explaining to them, but Reg can do all these things for you and we would lose them. They wouldn't close.
Jeff Holman (23:18)
They
didn't want to hear the PhD explanation of of how the technology worked behind the scene.
Asaf Darash (23:22)
Nobody
cares. Nobody cares. So then we dumbed it down to we can do exactly what you want. There were con specific organizations that needed multiple things where we would expose that it can do all these things for them. But most organizations, it was just that. And then only when they onboarded, only after they onboarded, the project manager would tell them, by the way, if you want to also do events or courses or so forth with us, you can.
Jeff Holman (23:52)
I see.
Asaf Darash (23:53)
And then a lot of times after they already saw that the system works for them, they would be like, wait a second. So I can use it for other things as well? Like, yeah. And that would that would resonate because they it they already saw proof that it works for them. They already ate the steak and it was good. So now they can order the sushi.
Jeff Holman (24:14)
well if you can make a great steak and it's this good, then I yeah, you're you could probably do something.
Asaf Darash (24:18)
Probably you know how to make sushi is.
Jeff Holman (24:19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see that. I see that. Well w why why do you think you approached it the opposite way at first? What was it just the academic nature of of saying, Hey, here's let me tell you all the details and you can make a decision for yourself? Is that why you approached it the other way first?
Asaf Darash (24:35)
My my ops manager t says it very nicely that I am just blind to stupidity. I'm just blind to it. I just blind I can't believe it's stupidity. Yeah. Like I can't believe that someone would not understand this.
Jeff Holman (24:52)
I see. You're I mean, you're you're a fairly well educated person, come from a w well educated family, your wife is well educated.
Asaf Darash (25:00)
I'm
like, yeah, this is like easy, right? This is like if you hear how it works, you'll understand what are the the implications that how you could use it, right? And that's totally wrong. Like marketing is is all about short short attention spam, getting the message out in in four seconds, explaining to them how it's gonna help that their life. They they don't like I really remember a a
problem that really helped me understand our ICP really well. we have an Audubill process where you can automatically charge in installments and so forth. Very helpful for expensive programs because it lowers the barrier of entry, et cetera. And in a way, when you think about it, it's like it's like getting a loan. And then you have like specific payments that you need to to pay, right? And in a loan, if you change the the the
the amount that you have for the loan, also the payments change, right? Yeah. That's just basic math. Sure. Right. And and we were explaining it to to to a to a director of an educational institution. And and I was like, this is just math. And and his answer really crystallized the difference. He was like, I don't care about math. I just don't. And I was like, okay, now I understand. Like it needs to work.
in a way that is simple and easy and and it in a way just works and and it needs to be smart enough in the back end to adapt to all these situations that people don't care. Yeah. They really don't.
Jeff Holman (26:44)
that been a challenge for you as a leader or for your team? Because you you mentioned you hire a bunch of people out of Berkeley and so I I I it sounds like you have a very a very smart, sophisticated team also. Is it did that was that difficult to for the team to say, hey, we gotta we've all got to shift how we think because we're we're we're processing complex situations all day and we're inferring things and like but our our our messaging, our marketing messaging can't do that to our customers.
Was that difficult?
Asaf Darash (27:15)
More than that, not only the messaging and the marketing messaging, also the system itself. For example, people that that are are highly educated, probably like yourself as well, you can process between 25 to 30 data points at at the same time. Okay. So if I present to you a dashboard with 30 data points, you could probably understand what's going on. A normal person is able to process eight.
data points at the same time. Okay. So a lot of times when we build things, we we s I don't say we struggle, but we make it as as as a real effort to understand that we are not our clientele. Yeah. Like we're not building for ourselves.
Jeff Holman (28:06)
I say depending on where you depending on where and how you advertise, that number of eight might drop even. Because if someone's if you're advertising on social media, people are scrolling, they're probably like, I process one thing at a time and that's what you know.
Asaf Darash (28:19)
Yeah,
and basically my my attention span is like two, three seconds. And that's it. And and it's I wouldn't say that that it's it's not frustrating. It's a challenge, which we accept happily. Just to understand that people think differently.
Jeff Holman (28:37)
Yeah, thank you. is this something that you've that that you've used your testing approach on? You mentioned in our icebreaker segment that you test you you implement tests like culturally in your business, testing everything that someone does on a monthly basis to make improvements and I d is this something that you've run through that testing process, the messaging or the the approach? All the time. Okay.
Asaf Darash (28:58)
All the time, all the time. And we measure everything. And then we find out what works and what doesn't.
Jeff Holman (29:04)
What are who on your team would be doing that for this or what's a an example of a test that somebody might have run in the course of this the evolution of your marketing?
Asaf Darash (29:15)
Marketing? Okay, so it so first of all, we had that test where we we we created like a whole thing where if if you land on a specific pillar page from that point on it shows you as if for edge pack is only doing this thing. Okay, so that was a test that was run. we we split the audience 50-50 and we ran it and we saw like it was hugely bigger conversions for for for conversions for that situation.
Other tests also happen in the system, for example. We have a whole insights dashboard that tells them exactly what's going on with their project and how people are doing and so forth. And and and we ran three different versions of the dashboard to see which one of them would be the people that the one that people use mo the most. okay. And that that they come back to, like that that they view the most, like the version one, two, or three. And and again, a lot of times.
It's very counterintuitive than what we think would work. For example, we found out that people prefer to for for the computerized system to tell them what are the actions that they need to do rather than to see the information and deduct the actions that they want to do from that. Okay, like I thought in the beginning, like, show me the data and I will understand what I need to do based on the data, right?
That sounds like look at your face. So you're like, Yeah, that makes sense, right?
Jeff Holman (30:47)
I'm a systems guy. I'm like, show me all the options and I'll tell you which one I want. So that makes sense to me.
Asaf Darash (30:52)
So so basically no, most people would prefer the system to tell them, This is the data, this is what you need to do. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (30:58)
Don't give me the rest of the stuff I don't need to know about. I don't need it for context. I don't need to exact I don't need to know like like comparative value. Like just tell me what I need to do and let's get it done.
Asaf Darash (31:08)
Or for example, we found out that if the system is in in in a lot of connect things that are connected to finance, two numbers can be accurate. Okay, 'cause it could be that here it's including the excluded users and here it's not including the excluded users, or here it's including the refunds that happened last month and et cetera.
So one of the things like we ran tests where where we're showing them accurate accounting information the way that an accountant would want to see it, right? Versus a simple of extremely simplified version where all the numbers align always, right? And and they preferred the the second one where where all the numbers align rather than having all the the view of all the situation.
Jeff Holman (32:01)
So it w so they didn't have all the details, but they had they they also didn't have questions when they were done looking at it. They're like, Hey, I'd r I'd rather just see it and not have I'm gonna show it to my team or an investor or, you know, look at it myself and be like, Well, I don't understand why these two don't add up. That like like I'd rather have them add up.
Asaf Darash (32:19)
And and even if the system explains to them why they don't add up, like this is including right excluded users and this is not, it's it's it's they they prefer not to see that.
Jeff Holman (32:28)
And you know that 'cause you've you've given them access to different versions and they've repeatedly gone back to that one. What what exact how do you help your team to think like this? if you've got people who have been with you for ten years, they've probably all adapted to this approach, but but when you onboard a new employee or when you were first starting out, how did you guys I mean you were doing the testing, but but were there other challenges internally to get your team to adapt to this type of thinking?
Asaf Darash (32:57)
I would say that in Reg Pack is either you you love it here in Reg Pack or you hate it to work at Reg Pack.
Jeff Holman (33:07)
You're either gonna run you're either gonna run tests or not. And if you run the tests, you're gonna see the data and
Asaf Darash (33:13)
Exactly. Like you you're either gonna be like, okay, I I actually like understanding what's going on. I I measure the data, I I I use it in order to understand. or or you you you just like, you know, this is too much for me. I just wanted just tell me what to do. Okay. a great example is we had my my right hand person, Calvin, he pushed for years and years and years to to allow free trials. Okay.
And and we enabled a free trial. We enabled a free trial for I think it was f thirty or sixty days, I don't remember. And there were certain like limitations and so forth, but but it was there was a free trial. And and he was like very happy that that we have a free trial and so forth and and he was like, You're gonna see this is great.
Jeff Holman (34:01)
Was this an intuition thing that he brought? Like,
Asaf Darash (34:04)
Yeah, there was totally intuition. It was like it always starts with an intuition. It always starts with an intuition, right? Because if you just work based on on on data, like you'll do nothing. You have to have a leap of faith. Like say, I believe this will work. And now you run the test of if does it work, right? And and I gave it to him to I told him, like, you're in charge of this. You're in charge of this test. And and I remember him all pumped up and this is gonna be great. And we're gonna get so many clients, blah blah blah. And
He came to me after like two months. He was like, turn it off. I was like, Why? He was like, The data shows that this is really bad for us.
Jeff Holman (34:40)
So he was he he was running his test. I mean he sounds like he was fully bought in on doing this. A lot of companies do this, right? They they throw out freemium, you know, accessibility. They they they give away free trials and and it just seems like, well, if you're gonna be in software, you doesn't everybody do that? But what kind of data was he looking at? How did he how did he make that decision?
Asaf Darash (35:02)
looking at at conversions after people came in, the size of the organizations that was brought in, the type of systems that they were building. and he basically like we have a tier system of the value of the client from tier one, which is the highest value, to tier five, which is and we we found out that tier five, four, and three churn a lot, regardless of how good the system is for them. Okay. Because this is an advanced system that if you don't have enough pain
In the process of onboarding people and gathering money and so forth, it's just it doesn't make sense. It's like using a Ferrari to go to the grocery store. It doesn't make sense, right? So so the type of organizations that were using the free trial were all the tier fours and tier five. And they were just like, you know, using it for two weeks and then abandoning it. And and you never got the situation of reaching out and and the sales that were happening.
were still going through the sales team where they were like, I'm I'm a tier one. They obviously don't talk that way, right? But I'm a tier one. I just want to talk to someone to understand if this will work for me. So so it was bringing in the type of clients, exactly the type of clients that we don't want.
Jeff Holman (36:14)
Yeah, yeah. That that makes sense. I I I mean it just in in my in my law firm I I see that too, you know. The clients that I have to convince to hire me are not the clients I want. It's the ones who come in and they say, Jeff, like I've I've looked at your website, I know what you do, I know that you're you have this team approach and and I I have a budget, I think, but we don't even talk about budget. Like when can you start? Because I've got six things already on my list that I haven't been that I've been I've been avoiding for three months now and one of them's gonna pop, I'm sure. So
How do we get you started now to just onboard and help fix things before they explode? Those are the those are the tier ones for us, using your terminology. So that makes sense. I I want to shift a little bit if we can. you mentioned kind of the the whole process or experience behind, you know, getting to the point where you're either investor based or you're bootstrapped, right? Give us give us a flavor for what was going on and
When you started out and you I'm gonna build a business, did you say, This is gonna be awesome? This is probably the type of business I'll go out and get VC money on or y what was your initial impression?
Asaf Darash (37:23)
how it's like I started. I I like like I said, like in the beginning I had a bunch of clients that were, you know, just from from people that I knew and so forth. And and then we started to market and so forth. And I I understood that marketing is very expensive, right? Now marketing and re and reaching out to clients and getting leads and so forth is very expensive. So I initially thought let's get investment for this so that we can grow faster. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (37:52)
And the company's based in California, right? So there's a and you were in Berkeley. So it seems like seems kind of natural that you'd like, Well, there's probably probably investors out there for us.
Asaf Darash (38:02)
Yeah, and and and basically we we we found an an angel an angel investor that was interested and said yes and all that. And and and we started to work with with some run rate where where it was my own money, until like all the the details will will close out and and it's sort of prolonged and prolonged and prolonged. and and after about a year where I was funding the business for my own money,
They came back and they're like and and also loans and so forth because the investment is coming in, right?
Jeff Holman (38:33)
You were talking to the investor for a year?
Asaf Darash (38:37)
No, it was like a bunch of investors and then he said yes, we we're committed and and and it was like there was sort of like saying, Okay, we're we're putting the money in the bank account like next week, next month and so forth. And then we found out that this angel investor went bankrupt.
Jeff Holman (38:55)
Okay.
Asaf Darash (38:56)
And suddenly the two million dollars that we agreed on were not coming. And we were like
Jeff Holman (39:03)
this early on? 'Cause you were like twenty twelve years ago, would have been twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen. Yeah. So he he or she just ran into their own issues. It's not like the
Asaf Darash (39:13)
Yeah, like regardless of us, right? And and then we were we were we were like at a crossroad of like, okay, what do we do? What do we do? Like we we have like we have employees as if we have two million two million dollars, we have offices as if as if we have two million dollars. Do we continue this and and look for a different investor? Or do we bootstrap this? And at that point I I felt that
We still need to improve the technology and understand better how it should work for these types of organizations. And I made a a decision which today I think was was correct. Yeah. at the time I didn't like it at all, because it was it was very hard on me personally, to to go bootstrapped. Yeah. So that we can bring it to a point that the business would be
that that the technology would be solid enough that when we go out to investment, we we we can know that it works and not, you know, for four organizations, for four hundred organizations.
Jeff Holman (40:25)
push off investment until you're until you're in kind of scale up mode instead of instead of taking on investment while you're in start up mode. How how did you how did you how were you able to do that? Was it just personal funds that you were able to tap into and and and move forward or 'cause that's a I mean when you're running when you if you had offices and employees as if you had two million dollars in the bank and you don't, that's that's a struggle, right? That's that's that's not an easy thing to do.
Asaf Darash (40:49)
So I fired everyone and I gave options to two people that I thought would be the best people that would work for for the business. And we worked fourteen hours a day for a year. And today the business is worth a lot and it's all ours.
Jeff Holman (41:08)
So okay, so so you just had to you had to make the tough decision and say we're we're not funded, we're not gonna get funded and and we'll go forward. did that change other things in the way that you operated? It did you you had it did you have existing customers at the time too? Or were you okay, so you had some customers, you had some revenue, but it wasn't wasn't enough to grow, maybe not enough to sustain you.
Asaf Darash (41:29)
No, it wasn't enough to sustain the operation that we have.
Jeff Holman (41:34)
Okay. So you scaled back to to more or less match the the the revenues that you had coming in.
Asaf Darash (41:41)
We moved from twelve or f thirteen people, sorry.
Jeff Holman (41:45)
Okay.
Asaf Darash (41:49)
It was a struggle. Yeah. It was a hard year. It was a hard year. I felt I made the wrong decision. I felt like a failure every single morning. but in the long run it worked out.
Jeff Holman (42:04)
Can I ask? And if it's too personal, you can tell me that that's not something we're gonna talk about. But how how did cause you had a wife, you were guys you guys were in the postdoc stage or were you out of that by then? What what
Asaf Darash (42:16)
I was
just finishing the postdoc, like I had like two months left.
Jeff Holman (42:19)
Okay. And so that's I mean, how did you and your wife work through that? Was that she just said, Hey, this off like we got this?
Asaf Darash (42:30)
She was she was actually very supportive. Yeah. I remember that what like one morning she woke up and she asked me, like, you didn't sleep again? I was like, No, I didn't sleep. And she was like, like, why are you doing this? Do you want this? Like, is is this something that you really want? I'm like, Yeah, I really want this. And she's like, Yeah, so I'm here, I'm here with you. Like
Jeff Holman (42:55)
That's amazing. That's amazing. Yeah, not it not everybody has that support network around them. So kudos to to to you and your wife. How did that decision and working through, I mean, when did you know that you were that you were maybe past that rough stage? You said it was like a year and you're working 14 hour days and there's three of you and you know, everybody's probably probably working for free for the most part. What what at what point did you say, I think we're gonna get out of this?
Asaf Darash (43:21)
When we hit the one hundred thousand revenue per month.
Jeff Holman (43:24)
Okay. Okay.
Asaf Darash (43:26)
Like I understood like, okay, like this is gonna work. Like when we saw that we're growing like month to month by ten percent and and it's it's working. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (43:37)
Looking back, would you have done anything differently? you know, clearly if you had known the investor was gonna pull out, you maybe you wouldn't have hired, but
Asaf Darash (43:46)
No, I I don't I don't believe I don't believe in that that way of thinking. I think everything happens the exact same w the exact way it should happen.
Jeff Holman (43:55)
And so wha if that's the case, what was what was the benefit of it happening the way that it did for you? What do you what did you take out of it or what did you do differently? what do you do differently today, maybe even, that came as a result of what happened back then?
Asaf Darash (44:11)
I think today we're a very, very responsible company from a financial standpoint. like unlike a lot of technology companies where like money is not real, for us money is very real, even though we make a lot of money today, money is very real for us. we and and for that reason we know how to appreciate that and and also give our employees the benefits of the success.
I think that's one. And two, we're actually now looking to to merge the business with with bigger businesses and and go for for a sale. And the the numbers that we're talking about are not even close to what we would be talking about if we had investors in in terms of our financial benefit.
Jeff Holman (45:03)
been diluted to a much much smaller amount and you the your your takeaway from a transaction would be very different. Very much smaller. That
Asaf Darash (45:12)
Yeah, from from a transaction that is basically like my grandchildren would be not need to work to a transaction that is, this is nice. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (45:23)
Well, congratulations on being where you're at. Is there anything you would tell because th this conversation and the winds seem to be shifting over the last few years about a a little bit away from VC funding and much, much more towards bootstrapping. People are saying that I think it's partly an AI, you know, kind of implementation.
Asaf Darash (45:43)
First of
all, I think AI changed the technology world in a way that we still don't understand. Yeah. Like seriously, we don't understand still. Like only two years from now we'll understand what AI did to technology marketing, to programming, to system architect. It's it's it's too big to understand right now. but I can tell you that yeah, it's changing by the shift is huge. The shift is huge.
I actually really felt bad for all the people that are learning computer science now, because they're in a rough spell spot, like a seriously rough spot. If they want to be programmers.
That that that has disappeared from the world.
Jeff Holman (46:32)
You know, it's interesting. I think there's a parallel 'cause the way that you've talked about your marketing changing from, hey, l you know, here's everything that's possible to here's what you need for your for your specific situation. I feel like AI does the latter. We go to AI and we ask a question that says it just wants to give us that answer immediately and say, Hey, here, here's the code, here's the here's the tip, here's the whatever. And and so i in a sense, maybe this is what you're saying.
is that people who are learning to code with AI are getting spoon-fed only the pieces they need and they're missing a lot of the context that might help them be better programmers down the road.
Asaf Darash (47:10)
I would say that people that are programming with AI that have no programming knowledge or no system architect knowledge are are probably building like really, really bad systems. Cause AI is is a very low-level program, like very low level. you have to put it in a very specific lane, in a very specific box in order for it to work correctly. The interesting thing would be, not now, when
all the programmers that are working with AI are actual programmers. It would be interesting a generation from now where the programmers that are working with AI never programmed on their own. Yeah. Then we will see really how good or bad it will be.
Jeff Holman (47:55)
Someone's gonna to build the infrastructure that tells people what they need to know to build the software that they're trying to build because they're missing that they're missing all that back end stuff right now.
Asaf Darash (48:05)
Yeah. so so yeah, like that that's a big change in terms of like the VC. I would say that VC money is great, right? If you're building something that demands a lot of firepower in the beginning, like extreme like technology that you're building or
Or huge marketing efforts that you need to do and so forth. Yeah. And and and the the the problem is that VCs have have a very short time to make money off of you. So a lot of people like never reach the point where this is I can actually turn this into a business. I think a lot of businesses did not.
it did not become a real business because they went for VC month.
Jeff Holman (49:03)
Yeah.
They got shut down before they before they were able to persist into into success.
Asaf Darash (49:07)
Because
they needed another year or two to to make this happen and and the VC was like, I don't have that that time. I need to show results to my investors, so forth. I'm selling you to someone else. They they tear apart the business, they take the parts that they're interested in and and the VC is happy. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (49:24)
Well, this has been fascinating stuff. I'd like to ask you one more question though. W what is it that you think that you do differently today as a leader just because of the experiences you've been through?
Asaf Darash (49:37)
I trust my people a lot. A lot. Like I tell them, what is the goal? And I tell them, you know, come to me if you need help, but get the goal. And tell me how much how much funding you need, how much money you need, I'll approve it, and then you're on your own. Like you're independent, make it happen. Whereas I think in the past I was
involved in nearly everything and it hindered the business extremely because I'm only one person.
Jeff Holman (50:13)
Was this just a a personal decision you made, like I need to give people more trust, or was there or was that other stuff that happened along the way where where trust was built, so to speak?
Asaf Darash (50:23)
I had a serious burnout, like where I just couldn't get out of bed for two weeks. Wow. Like serious burnouts. And I just understood that this is not gonna work long term.
Jeff Holman (50:37)
Okay. Okay.
Asaf Darash (50:39)
And and then just like I said, I ran an experiment. Let's just give people full authority, see what happens. And and I found out that it's better than.
intervening in everything because people feel responsibility, they feel accountability and they make it happen. So I was like, okay, so this is better for everyone.
Jeff Holman (51:03)
Let's make that. And I I would I would think too that for the for the instances where it doesn't work, the people who maybe don't give back what they need to give back in that real in that relationship, you find out faster, right? So you you you probably A lot faster. You you align your team faster because you find out the people that don't don't want to participate at that level of trust. So well so what does the company look like today? And and where do you see it going in the next five years? Is is it is it just the transaction that's on the table or you you you
Expanding it markets.
Asaf Darash (51:34)
Right now we're expanding very strongly into AI. It's really interesting what we're doing with AI. we're trying to automate everything. We're basically reach a point where all support, all building, all all actions are basically done with AI. it's an interesting transition for us and for our clients. beyond that, I believe that RegPack can be
the number one onboarding software in the next decade, assuming that the technology world will not blow up in the next three years. Like there, I really, like, I really, this is the the I I think it's the first time in in my life where I've been part of technology forever, right? Where I really don't know what's gonna happen in the next two years.
Jeff Holman (52:28)
Even though you've been I have no idea. You've been programming since you were like seven, you said, on on all computer.
Asaf Darash (52:34)
I really have no idea. And I think also that any any person that is versed in technology, if they tell you otherwise, they're lying.
Jeff Holman (52:43)
Yeah, because you just can't know with with the way things are going.
Asaf Darash (52:46)
can't know
because because it's really like the whole way that everything will work has changed by a technology that is running faster than what we are able to grasp.
Jeff Holman (53:03)
Yeah. It's almost like you're you're you're you're yelling out of a a plane going supersonic speed and y the sound that you're yelling will will never will never get ahead of the plane. The plane's moving too fast. So
Asaf Darash (53:16)
I don't think it needs like you know there's like the whole no kill AI movement. I don't believe in that at all. Right. I I think AI is is is gonna be very beneficial in the long run if we understand how to use it correctly. it's just it's just like you said, like AI is giving people the answers and they're just taking the answers as is instead of understanding this is an assistant. This is not something
That will do the work for me. It's an assistant to help me understand what I need to do or how I need to do things. And if we'll treat it that way, then it will go in a very, very positive route. But if we treat it as this is the answer, and whatever it tells me to do, I'll do, it's gonna go bad.
Jeff Holman (54:06)
We're gonna end up on paths that we don't know where we might not know how to get out of eventually. So well it's off I really appreciate you coming on the show, sharing your insights, sharing your story, some breakout moments. It's super helpful, I think, to other CEOs to hear some of these behind the scenes moments. And so thank you so much for for sharing about what you've with Regpack.
Asaf Darash (54:25)
Thank you for having me.
Jeff Holman (54:26)
It's
been great. And thanks to our audience who's joined us again on another episode of the Breakout CEO. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And if you enjoy the show, a rating or a review goes a long way. Our mission is to promote the stories of breakout CEOs in scaling SaaS, e-commerce, and tech companies to equip peer CEOs with valuable perspectives and confidence.
Thanks again for joining us on this episode of the Breakout CEO. I'm Jeff Holman, and I'll see you next time.
