Why Financial Success And Self-Worth Are Not The Same Thing

TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY:

00:00 Breaking CEO Limiting Beliefs
02:32 From Bottleneck to $5M Exit
05:39 When Success Still Feels Empty
08:08 Befriending Your Inner Imposter
13:07 The Hidden Fear of Success
20:05 Busy Means Love, Safety, Worth
25:43 You Cannot Outwork Beliefs
32:19 Seeing Beyond Your Own Patterns
45:24 How Childhood Beliefs Shape Business
50:05 Building Genuine Internal Validation
54:56 Delegating Without Fear or Insecurity
58:52 Do the Inner Work Now

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Louis Swart (00:00)

From the outside, I would have looked successful all the way through, but the self-worth was definitely not there. As you can't see the label of the jar from inside the jar, this belief is in so incredibly strong in your mind. And it actually controls everything that you do. You have to make friends with the imposter pretty quickly because it's always going to be there. So we have love, safety and worthiness.

Jeff Holman (00:22)

Welcome back everybody to the Breakout CEO podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman with Intellectual Strategies, and I'm here today with Lewis Swart. Lewis, you're joining me from Sydney, Australia. So glad to have you here.

Louis Swart (00:33)

Thank you very much. It's nice and early in the morning.

Jeff Holman (00:36)

It is. It six AM I think you said, right? So we're c do you always start your day this early?

Louis Swart (00:44)

I do a lot of stuff with Americans in the American community and so it it is an early start.

Jeff Holman (00:49)

Yeah. So it that reminds me this morning my my day started at six one. And I know that because at six one I I don't dream often, but I was in the middle of this dream and at six one I abruptly told myself in my dream, What are you doing? You've got tennis this morning. I I'm I play tennis regularly at six AM, two or three times a week. And last night I just didn't set my alarm. And so but but somehow my my brain said, Nope, this dream's over.

Get to tennis. So I texted my guys. I'm only five minutes away from there. You know, somebody down the street has a court. And so I I went and I I was a few minutes late. Anyway, six AM. It just triggered my memory about my own morning this morning. Some days are that way, right? Getting started is is an adventure some days. Well, we're not here to talk about wake up routines necessarily. although they're probably probably that's probably its own theme for some some CEOs, right? Wake up routines. not just

not just get up in the morning, but kind of waking up from the maybe the routines that you're already in. today we're gonna talk about some of your experiences, both probably leading prior businesses. you've done that in the past, and the and the and the work that you do today advising CEOs and and founders in their own businesses, helping them maybe see the light a little bit. so I'm excited to get into that.

tell us though, before we talk about what you're doing today, tell us about the experiences you've had in business, growing business, some of the successes, some of the maybe some of the rough times you y you've seen along the way and how you got around those.

Louis Swart (02:32)

I remember you know, my goal was to be a millionaire by thirty. by thirty I'd sold my, you know, I I sold a business for five million that I had with my brother. Fantastic. And I remember sitting in the bank. I actually remember sitting in the bank and them counting out because we sold it for cash. We were leaving us South Africa and moving to Australia, we sold it for cash. And I remember sitting in the bank and had those those the the counting and money counting machines, you know, and it was going.

Jeff Holman (02:59)

Wait,

when you say you sold it for cash, you mean actual actual bills? Actual

Louis Swart (03:02)

Actual building.

Jeff Holman (03:03)

this was not Okay, okay. So they're counting five million dollars in bills.

Louis Swart (03:09)

It was in in in in Bills, yeah. Wow. And so they they had the money on in a ma in a you know, counting machine, like, you know, brrrr and putting it in elastic band and making a pile of it and you know, you think it's such a big amount of money and then when you actually see it on a table it's it's not very much money at all. Okay. And I remember sitting there and thinking back about a business I'd had before and I had a business

Where I had a plumbing business, I had ten plumbers, I was doing really well, went to sell it, said to the broker, What's my business worth? And he said, Who does the accounting? And I Well, I do it. Who does the college control? I do it. I everything was me. And I mean I had team I had teams under me, but I did everything. Everything kind of s the buck stopped at me. And he said to me, Louie, your business is worth nothing. And I remember the de how devastating that felt. I remember that sinking feeling in my stomach because

ultimately I was this massive bottleneck in the business. And being the bottleneck in the business, like he said to me, I've got to find another you who can do plumbing and accounting and all the things that you do. Yeah. So that was a massive lesson for me. And so fast forward to, you know, five years later when I was thirty, I had a business now with two hundred staff and literally we'd learnt how to delegate everything. And so when it came to delegation, it was just who does this, who does that. And I think that's one of the things that's

That's super hard for people to understand is how to actually delegate properly. Yeah.

Jeff Holman (04:37)

Yeah.

Louis Swart (04:38)

So yeah. But and then moved to Australia, had some epic wins, some epic failures. the last business we we grew to turning over thirty five million dollars with with four hundred and fifty staff. Yeah. And so y you know, I I've been I've been there. I've been there several times, you know, I've had

nasty exits, I've had nice exits. it's and it plays around with you. So yeah.

Jeff Holman (05:08)

Yeah, you've seen you've seen a lot there. So so what is it that triggers you or that that motivates you to step away from that role, running businesses, managing teams, building multi-million dollar businesses to say, hey, I I think I've got I think I've got a a different purpose that I can fulfill here. I can help teach people about delegation, teach people how to run their company differently. Wha was there a moment where you just said to yourself,

I'd rather be doing that or or or what was that transition like?

Louis Swart (05:39)

A definite moment. A definite moment. Okay. So I I still have I still have people. I mean I've got I've got teams in Egypt and Nepal and the Philippines and South Africa. So I still got people around me. But I remember being, you know, making getting to that point where you're making thirty five you know, you you're turning over the thirty five million and making about ten million a year and just feeling like empty, feeling like I should really be happy. I should really be happy.

But it's it's a different it's a different place to be, you know, it's a very lonely place because you've got all these people everyone's trying to everyone's going for your you know, trying to get your position. Everyone's telling you how lucky you are 'cause you know, you're so lucky and you're like, Well, I worked you weren't there when I was working, you know, at two o'clock in the morning every night. You you weren't there. Right. Right. Now you're here at the end and you're like, You're so lucky. It's like you just suddenly woke up one day and you had a multimillion dollar company, you know, and and

For me I felt like this is the pinnacle. I I should be like I I should be extremely happy. You know, I've got the toys and I've got the I've got the money and you know and I d I then thought like I I felt like I was broken as a human. Thought I must be broken as a human, okay. I've got all the money coming in, I've got everything coming in, I've got f you know, f over four hundred staff and so then I went on this journey to actually go and try and find out what was wrong with me. Then I studied

you know, I I didn't want to just go to a counselor or a therapist. I wanted to actually see what they did. And so I went and became a NLP master practitioner, you know, neurolinguistic, the way we think and the way we talk. So I became an NLP master practitioner. I became a hypnotherapist, I became a timeline therapist, I became a matrix therapist, I became all these things while I was still while I still was running this business.

Jeff Holman (07:34)

And this was all part of your search. Like you're this was you saying, I need to find out w like why I'm thinking the way I am or why I'm broken. Yeah. Well, can I ask can I step back? I wanna I wanna get into that. But like what was happening up to this point in time though? Because did you always have this kind of underlying feeling like, I'm I'm broken or I'm an impos a lot of people talk about imposter syndrome. Like w did you always have this underlying thing or or or had you

Did it develop over time as you got more successful? Like where do you think that what was the origin of that?

Louis Swart (08:08)

Look, I think I think you have to make friends with the imposter pretty quickly because it's always going to be there. You know? If if you if you if you're making a hundred million, you meet somebody that's making a billion, you feel like an imposter. If you walk into a room where, you know, you're a billionaire and, you know, other people are making more money, you feel like an imposter. Or you walk into a room where they know more than you do. Sometimes you feel like an imposter. You know? but if you can make friends with that feeling that you don't want to be the smartest person in the room.

You don't want to be the richest person in the room. You want to be the student in the room. Once you make f friends with that, it makes it easier. But I didn't I didn't feel anything like that. I mean, I powered ahead. I I worked I try to outwork my, you know, limiting beliefs. I try to outwork everything I so I never actually felt I'm not worthy or I never physically felt that until I got to the point where I started doing all this emotional work on myself.

I knew something was wrong. But I didn't I d you know you have these highs and you have these lows and you you know, you you make mil millions and then you lose it or you you know, it's yeah.

Jeff Holman (09:20)

So is imposter syndrome I I 'cause I don't want to mischaracterize this for the audience that's listening, is imposter syndrome something different than feeling broken? Or are you talking about two different things? Did I did I bring in imposter syndrome even though that's not what you're talking about?

Louis Swart (09:33)

Yeah, imposter syndrome is more like you walk into a room and you feel like I shouldn't be here or you're in a you're in a meeting, okay? It like I'm in a meeting and I got two hundred staff in the meeting that I'm that I'm briefing and I kinda go, Hey, they're gonna realise that I'm just I'm just I don't know as I don't know as much as what they do. You know, these two hundred people have come here to listen. My staff have come here to listen to me. Maybe they're gonna see I'm not as good as what they thought I was.

You know, or you walk into a room and there's, you know, the main guys from the government and you know, at one point the government was in my biggest customer. And you go, you know, maybe they're gonna see I'm I'm not as good as what I thought I was. You know, I'm gonna do a speech on new technology that I've put in. Maybe they're gonna maybe they're gonna see it's it's not as good as what I make it sound like because, you know, I wanna get the tenders. Like, you know, that's you you kind of have that. Even though it's great, even though it's a amazing, the stuff I was putting in was amazing.

But you have that little niggling doubt in the back of your mind that mm you know you you're maybe gonna be caught out. so that's different to the sort of limiting beliefs, because the limiting beliefs are really those things that we have when it's quiet. When it's quiet and we have, man, you know what maybe, maybe it was a fluke that I got here. I remember, you know, I sold a business, I sold a business, five million, and then I was like, Maybe that was a fluke.

Maybe it was a fluke that I did well in that business. And then I did the next business and grew it to, you know, to never have a couple of million. And then when I exited that it was maybe it was a fluke. Maybe I had a second fluke. Maybe I'm never going to have that again. Maybe that position was the pinnacle of my life. Maybe I'm never going to get that good again. Really? Those are the beliefs that we have. Even when we've sold it, even when we've sold it and got the cash in your bank account, you still go, man, maybe that was just a maybe I was just lucky.

'Cause you get told so much how lucky you are. You know? Yeah. Other people are telling you like you're just so lucky. I can't believe this happened to you. It's it's amazing. And you i i you start to believe that maybe you are just lucky.

Jeff Holman (11:42)

Maybe it wasn't your hard work, maybe it wasn't all those two AM nights, maybe Yeah.

Louis Swart (11:47)

And and you know, as we grow, I think we have this thing where money becomes less you know, I always have this thing and I say, When you were when you're young and you go out to spend money, you know, you would just drop like if a lolly was you know, a dollar, you just buy a lolly, all right? And then you get a bit more money. And now if something's ten bucks, you just ten bucks, you don't even think about it. If something's ten dollars, you just buy pick it off the shelf.

And then you go up and up and up. Eventually you're saying, Well, it's only ten K you know? That's gonna come in this I'm gonna I mean I've got this ten K coming in this week, I'm not sure what to do with. It's only ten K, I'll just pick it up. Yeah. But you don't you your your your your units of measure actually become bigger and bigger and bigger.

Jeff Holman (12:35)

Shouldn't that help establish more confidence as as those units of measure are going up? I but I feel I feel like what you're explaining is there was as as your performance is going up or your ability to spend or whatever, whatever it is that seem like they should maybe be, you know, maybe not measures of of worth, but but but kind of coincidental with the confidence you have in your business, but there's still this broken feeling that.

That persists. Is that right?

Louis Swart (13:07)

Absolutely, 'cause your business I mean, the more money you know that money can money could be gone tomorrow. You could literally wake up tomorrow and your money could be cleaned out. Yeah. Okay. You know that. So that i and if you've got nothing like if I've got nothing and I wake up tomorrow and there's nothing in my bank account and there was nothing yesterday. you know, I mean like what's the big loss? Whereas when I built to this pinnacle in life and then I've got more to lose. I literally got more to lose the more I've got.

So there so it's more pressure. It's more pressure the more I've got. And also when when you've got no when you've got no money and you you know you're talking to people, they understand you. 'Cause you know, it depends who you who you're hanging around. But I mean, if you had don't really have a lot of money and you're hanging around the people that don't have a lot of money, those people understand you and it's a we're all in this together. Okay. But then as soon as you get a bit you know, a bit of money

A lot of those people that you used to hang around with don't hang around with you anymore. Cause, you know, you going on better holidays or buying better cars or, you know, people have jealousy and there's all these things happening around in your world, which you know, there's all these there's those fears, you know, and the fear of success is one that's a really, really big fear. You know, we we talk about the fear of failure and the fear of being seen and all those fears.

But very rarely do we talk about the fear of success. If I really, really make money, I'm probably gonna have to move. I'm probably gonna wanna live in a bigger house. I'm probably not gonna you know, I quite like my neighbours. I like living where I do live. And you know, I'm probably gonna have want a bigger car and you know, you know, people are probably gonna look at me and think I'm a drug dealer or how did I get all this money? Yeah. And we have that, and that's a genuine fear.

Jeff Holman (15:02)

Is another way to say that that you're that because you have to leave the things you're familiar with, that you feel more isolated from those things over time. More because a lot of CEOs talk about how lonely it feels at the top. They talk th they're like, Hey, I it's really hard to find somebody who relates, who who understands what I'm saying other than another CEO who's in a similar type of situation. Like like they seem to get it, but but when I talk to family or friends that aren't in those situations

Like that loneliness maybe is just an isolation from the things that you were familiar with and the things that were familiar with you as you existed before you grew out of it, right? So did you did you experience as you as you grew into those different roles in your in your kind of career journey, did the loneliness grow also?

Louis Swart (15:57)

Definitely. 'Cause there's less people you can trust 'cause everyone everyone's after your position. Hm. You know, it doesn't matter how loyal your team is, I mean it people are people are people want to get to where you are. And the more people think you're lucky, the more they think if they do something they could get lucky as well. They could get lucky and just take your position.

Jeff Holman (16:18)

If Lewis can do it, I can do it.

Louis Swart (16:20)

I mean a hundred percent. Like you get you get to the pinnacle and you, you know I I I see you in a meeting and I'm like, Well, there's nothing that Jeff really does, it's amazing. Okay. Because it I don't see all the work that you took to get to that point. And then when you at that point I go, Well, you know, I'm I probably talk a bit better than Jeff can in a meeting. I could probably put my point across a bit more. you know, I'm still

probably you know maybe a bit hungrier than what Jeff is. I can work longer hours in him. I'm maybe a younger guy. This is what this is what's happening underneath the surface. And you can't tell, you can't go, you know, you can't go to people in your team and say, listen, I'm really, I'm really struggling because like this week, you know, we might not make payroll. We may not make payroll this week, you know, of chasing these clients because if we don't get these clients, we're not going to make payroll. Because you can't just go to your team and say that.

Right. Because if you go to your team and say that people will start abandoning ship 'cause like you're not a you're not a stable you're not a stable business. So you've got to like keep that internally. So you've got to keep that internally that you've got all these struggles happening. All these struggles. Right. You you're not publicizing them to the organization. And so it's lonely, you know? And I suppose, you know, your the spouse and that, they get tired of hearing the the you know, the the issues that you're having at work.

Jeff Holman (17:47)

Maybe for different reasons.

Louis Swart (17:48)

You know, I'm sure if Elon Musk told us his problems, we wouldn't understand them. I mean I'm I'm sure that if he told us the stuff that he's actually struggling with, we'd be like I can I mean

Jeff Holman (17:59)

It'd be hard to yeah, hard to relate, no doubt. Yeah. Well th this is really interesting because because I'm thinking about the the stuff that w we talked about beforehand, which is you teach people about delegation. And and as we're describing this loneliness and this what feels like maybe a gap between, you know, leadership and sometimes the rest of the world. How d walk me through how you how you go because 'cause delegating almost seems like

the counterintuitive move to make once you once you say, hey, th this is a lonely spot to be in leadership and it's hard to relate to people. I would think some people would say, well, I'm not going to hand that off. Like I I'm not sure I'm not sure we connect. I'm not sure I trust them or that they trust me or or one, you know, one way or the other. should I really be giving them more authority in my business? Should I really be giving them, you know

more control over my fate, which is already maybe more unstable than I wanna tell them. Like like how how do you get from do these connect in some way?

Louis Swart (19:09)

Definitely. Look, I mean ultimately, it doesn't matter who we are, we all are kids at heart. We've all got those wounds that we had as a kid. Doesn't matter how powerful we are, you know. I remember going to a conference and it was the CEO of he was the vice president of Microsoft and he was telling us about how he stands in front of rooms of, you know, hundreds of thousands of people. But he's still that scared little guy who you would

get off the bus and he'd run as fast as he could to the front door and he remembers fumbling with the keys to try and get in because the bullies would come and, you know, harass him and, you know, bash him because his mum and dad were at work and, you know, he lived in and and that's that's what happens. We forget about that. Mm-hmm. And even in, you know, we we feel like I'm an adult now, I've got this all under control. But the reality is we've still got those a lot of those a lot of those patterns and beliefs that we got as a child are still running in the background. So

Jeff Holman (20:04)

Yeah.

Louis Swart (20:05)

So, you know, and some of those patterns are I've got to be super busy, okay? You know, I'm super busy. And it's not 'cause we it's not 'cause we're busy, it's not 'cause we necessarily want to be busy, but we have attached love to that. You know, Jeff, I'm actually so busy at work, I'm so busy at work because everybody really loves me. Because I mean they come to me. Any every problem, people come to me, okay? It drives me crazy, but you they obviously all love me so much, they all come to me, right?

Or, you know, Jeff, I'm I'm I must really be worthy, okay? Because I'm the guy. Anybody needs a problem solving the company, they come to me. You know,

Jeff Holman (20:46)

Yeah.

Louis Swart (20:47)

I'm worthy. I must be worthy, okay? Because I I'm the guy that everybody comes to. you know, or Jeff, nobody wants my job, man, because I work I'm so busy. I'm so busy that you know, nobody can do my job.

I mean, if somebody wants my job, they can have it. Because literally I'm so busy, nobody could fit into a day without fit into a day. So we have love, safety, and worthiness. Three of our core, three of our core needs. And we've built them into being busy. We've built them and we've layered them into being busy. And we've kind of condensed it so that they become busy. Busy becomes, I'm safe. Busy becomes, I'm worthy. Busy becomes, I'm loved.

Jeff Holman (21:33)

It's that proxy.

Louis Swart (21:35)

Absolutely.

Jeff Holman (21:36)

Not really love. Not not really worth. Absolutely not. It's maybe the opposite some people would say. Being busy keeps you from your connections and being busy you know shows your priorities, I guess. which which work isn't usually the one on our deathbed where we say, I should have been there I should have been there more often in my office. So

Louis Swart (21:57)

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Jeff Holman (22:00)

Why is it so why is it hard for people to break this? I mean, I know these are these are deep emotional ties to our childhood, perhaps. but like CEOs and lots of people out there that really smart people, w why does it take so much for people to realize that that that these are the are the real drivers for them rather than just saying, Well, that doesn't make sense. Why I would I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna do it.

I'm gonna do it a new way.

Louis Swart (22:32)

It would be so easy if we could just do that, hey. You know, and that's something that it that's something that we do need to that's something we do need to work on. But remember that those are deep seated. You know, we go back to those are deep seated beliefs. Jeff, if you're not loved, we're gonna kick you out of this tribe, right? And if we kick you out of this tribe, you're literally out there on your own, mate. We're all gonna look after each other against the predators and and you're out there like running around in the bush on your own. Yeah. Right.

If you're not you know, if you're not safe with us, you're gonna be out there on your own. And so it comes back to primal. I mean, we've got primal needs to have this, to have this. And you know, how do we stop how do we stop those how do we stop those primal needs? It's not something we can just turn on and turn off. You know, as as a child, your teacher said to you, Jeff, you're never gonna amount to anything. And that belief became a belief. It actually stuck in your main, in your mind. And you look for things in your life.

To actually justify that belief. So you look for places where you're gonna fail. And so you might be running this massive business and you're gonna look for ways to fail. You're gonna look for areas to lose money. You're gonna look for areas where you can prove that actually that teacher was right. And so, you know, we have that belief, the belief triangle where we, you know, we we we believe that we're not worthy, right? Then we run a business, then we sell it.

And now we think, well, I'm not worthy because I might not be able to start a business again, you know? And maybe that hampers us to start a business. And then we we take a bit longer to start it. We lose some of the money. So definitely see I'm not worthy. I wasn't able to start a business straight away, which reinforces that belief. And and so it the cycle just goes around like this and just becomes stronger and stronger.

'Cause ultimately we are all just kids. We're all just kids running on kids patterns.

Jeff Holman (24:28)

What the patterns that other people are doing? Because we we've we've all seen those those leaders who, at least from the outside, appear to charge forward time and time again. They they hit roadblocks, they might have some some things we even call failures, and yet they seem to just get up and they're off to the next thing. Like it almost seems like it doesn't phase them. Are are they built differently? Or are they managing their, you know, their

childhood needs differently? Like what are they doing differently, if anything, than the things that the rest of us who say, I'm I'm actually, if I admit it to myself, trying to reinforce the failure mode that was taught to me in in you know second grade and and I'm just gonna keep adjust readjusting my thermometer. I forget the book, the big idea or game or something like that.

Readjusting my thermometer back to that low temperature that that I'm comfortable with. Who what's the difference between those those people who seem to not be not be halted by the the down moments or the or even the failures?

Louis Swart (25:43)

think you'll find that a lot of them have done lots of internal work. So there's two ways we there's two ways we try and do it. And I've tried I've tried the the first way. And the first way was you try and outwork it. You literally outwork it. Okay. And you know you have this you have these feelings that you you know maybe you're not adequate or whatever and but you literally just work. And you work and you work and you work and you work. And you'll find that you'll make money, you'll get success and then you'll lose it.

And then you'll go back to making money, getting success, and you'll lose it. And it won't be your fault. It won't be your fault. Okay. There'll be a sudden tax change. There'll be like a company structure that has to change that'll, you know, structure. There'll be a partner that'll do you in. There'll be some external in your mind, external thing that's caused this. Okay. And it'll do a massive reset. You'll have these massive resets in your life. And the resets, you can't outwork the resets.

Jeff Holman (26:41)

Well, we're we're really just back to busy now, aren't we? Like you mentioned before.

Louis Swart (26:45)

literally

just going back to that you're going back to that figure. You're going back down to that w y where you feel like you where you feel like you deserve to be. You're going back down to where that belief feels like you should be.

Jeff Holman (26:57)

So if outworking it isn't the solution, what what is the what do the other people do about it?

Louis Swart (27:03)

The other option is to actually to actually try and work out what is actually happening. What is that belief? And how can we work on that belief? How can we work on that belief and actually try and solve it internally so that that doesn't that so that isn't a belief anymore? You know, it's one thing to say, you know, I'm I'm highly successful in a business, and then to go, Well, I'm worth it. You know, I'm worthy. That's two different things.

Two massively different things.

Jeff Holman (27:34)

Success and worth. You're you're you're saying success is something we can measure. We can objectively more or less say these people are successful or I'm successful at this level or versus people who don't achieve these the this level of performance. there's kind of this, I don't know if it's a you know i i every profession, you know, if I look around the legal profession, I'm like, well, I see some attorneys that look look they they probably are very very successful, but

I don't know what they I don't know how they feel about their own self worth, even though the success might be there from the outside.

Louis Swart (28:09)

From the outside, I would have looked successful all the way through, but the self worth was definitely not there. And it wasn't until I started doing into you know really deep work on myself that I realized that the self worth wasn't there. I just knew that something was wrong. I just knew that I kept hitting these roadblocks, you know. I knew that I'd make it do a business do fantastically well and then lose it, and then do a business do fantastically well and then lose it. That's all that I saw. I didn't know why it was happening.

I had no idea that it was happening because I had worthiness issues.

Jeff Holman (28:42)

Does that make your success more controllable? I mean, it sounds like what you're gonna say, and maybe I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, is that if we if we start thinking about our worth in a different way, we don't have to go through some of these down cycles that that come about about us. And and so in a way, I now have if I can if I can think of my worth in the right way, I probably have more control over my success.

than I have been claiming to have had this whole time.

Louis Swart (29:17)

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jeff Holman (29:18)

Explain explain that to me.

Louis Swart (29:20)

Well, if you don't think that you're worthy, it doesn't matter what you get, you're gonna lose it. You're gonna give it away, you're gonna somehow lose it, you're gonna gamble it away, you're gonna you know there's gonna be life's gonna happen to you where you're just gonna lose that. Because you don't deserve to have it.

Jeff Holman (29:37)

But we'll but we'll but we'll say those are all external factors. We'll be like, That's just how it happens. You want this. I've seen this before, it's it's not my fault. Those types of things.

Louis Swart (29:46)

Yep. It'll completely be external factors. So you won't actually understand where it's going. Because you on a conscious level are working your you're working as hard as you can to achieve this goal. But on unconscious level, your body's going your mind's going, Hey man, we don't deserve to have this money. Let's find a way to get rid of it somewhere. Let's let's find an outlet to to flush this money out of our life. 'Cause we don't deserve to have the money. And so you've got these two kind of conflicting parts of your b of your brain that are working.

One's working like extremely hard to get you to where you want to be, and the other one's working extremely hard to pull you back. You know, it's like any change management.

Jeff Holman (30:25)

Yeah. So so for us for a CEO who's sitting here listening to this and saying to themselves, How do I know if I'm doing that? What types of things would they be looking for either in their business or in their behaviors or in their the the way they talk to themselves? What what where would somebody go to say, Hey, I think I need I think I might benefit from, you know, trying to assess this and figure out if this is something I suffer from, if I can say it that way.

What like what would they notice? What what what should they be looking for?

Louis Swart (30:56)

You know the weirdest thing is? We all suffer from it. We all suffer from it in in varying degrees. Okay. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what kind of upbringing you had, whether it was a terrible upbringing or you think it was an amazing upbringing, we all suffer from it in in different different degrees. It's

Jeff Holman (31:13)

Part of humanity.

Louis Swart (31:15)

part of us being a human. Yeah. But once we can unlock those, once you can unlock those beliefs that you've got about yourself, literally

Your world's the world's your oyster. Because now imagine if you imagine if you've got these beliefs, you've got beliefs that you're not worthy and you're making money, losing money, making money, losing money, and you can actually start clearing up those beliefs, which allows you to hold on to more money, which allows you to maintain those positions better. You know? That is really where you want to be.

Jeff Holman (31:50)

So does somebody have to go through those cycles and then recognize that that cycle exists in order to be able to work on themselves in this way? Or or are there other things they could be they could be doing proactively, not you know, you don't need to fail four times before you say to yourself, Huh, I I should probably work on this. But w what ha tell me tell me what a CEO or another high performer should be looking for to to avoid the next failure that doesn't need to happen.

Louis Swart (32:19)

Great question. They would be asking like, you know, what does Tiger Woods need to look at in his swing to get to the next level? He he he can't look at it himself. He's he's actually s he's in it. He's in it. And so, you know, to him the swing feels perfect and, you know, his coach will say, Look, you were off, you know you were off just one degree, you know, and that's why the ball's landed thirteen meters off

you know. Of course. He can't see that. You know, I've got a coach and he always says you can't see the label of the jar from inside the jar. And unfortunately we are inside the jar. You know, that's why you need somebody to just come in and just spend a bit of time with you and actually really go through and find out what are those beliefs. Because they're deep seated beliefs. A lot of them go back to when we were kids and they were reinforced throughout your throughout your time. These beliefs were reinforced.

Jeff Holman (33:19)

So certainly somebody even if they can't see how to fix their issues, they'll recognize a pattern that, hey, I just keep I mean, if you if you've started three businesses and all three have failed, is that a pattern at that point? Is that or if you or if you keep coming back to yourself at the end of the end of the week and you, you know, you keep feeling dejected, is that a pattern to watch for?

I I I totally understand that the diagnosis sometimes or the even the solution is probably hard to come about on your own. We're not really programmed to see differently than the way that we actually see. It's hard to say it's hard to say, I'm just gonna shift my frame of reference right now into something I've never experienced before and come at myself differently. That that's really really hard to do. But but but also at the same time, certainly we're very familiar with.

the, you know, the things that we do see in our lives and those patterns that that that exist, we might need to, you know, be more attentive and say, well, what are my patterns? What what are some of the patterns that somebody might look for to identify that, you know, of course everybody has a chance to use this in their lives and to to improve themselves, but what are some of the patterns that a high performing CEO might look for or see that says, why have I been putting this off? It's time to

time to probably dive into this, into my limiting beliefs specifically, as opposed to spending time on, you know, any number of other you know, team or individual performance types of improvements.

Louis Swart (34:59)

Look, I know for me I got to a point where, you know, that point where you kind of feel like there must be something wrong with me. I should be happier, I should be further ahead in life. Something's not right. That's the point. That's the point where you go, like, something's not right. I I need I'm doing something wrong. You know, and trying to find that key, you know, you're looking for that key. What's the key? What's that thing that I'm doing wrong? How come this keeps happening to me? Why does this one thing keep happening to me?

Yeah, and that's really that's really the the the indicators of what it is. Okay. But ultimately, even if you don't have that, you know, even if you just even if you're a relatively newer CEO or if you've you know, you've finding that you're working extremely crazy hours, you're really struggling to trust who you can delegate work to or how you can delegate, or you worried, you know, you constantly worry that you know, people don't understand you and

You know, is y you don't want to give people more work in case they wanna take your role and all that stuff. These are all deep seated beliefs. There's beliefs below those.

Jeff Holman (36:08)

So what do we okay, so let's move into what what happens from here. Somebody says, okay, I've I've gotta I've gotta work on this. I've gotta figure out my you know, I've I I've probably got some some limiting beliefs from from some aspect of my my life that's inhibiting performance or you know, keeping me into the in this pattern that I don't necessarily want to be in consciously. And so so where do they go from there? You I mean you go get a coach or you what what is it that they do

to identify and and resolve or you know work through these limiting beliefs.

Louis Swart (36:43)

So look, there's a there's a whole process that we go through. we have a breakthrough process that we follow where we actually go in and we find out in your life, we go through a whole lot of things in your life. You don't have to actually tell us what the things were. You know, part of you don't have to tell me what actually happened to you, but you know, we actually go through what are all the different stages of your life when you got that belief. Okay. Right?

What are all the different stages in your life? So, you know, have you have you heard of timeline therapy? Have you heard of timeline therapy?

Jeff Holman (37:18)

I'm not familiar with it, no.

Louis Swart (37:19)

So I'll just explain to you quickly how timeline therapy works. Have you got brothers and sisters?

Jeff Holman (37:24)

I do. There are seven of us total.

Louis Swart (37:27)

Okay, and so where do you fit into the picture?

Jeff Holman (37:29)

I'm the third.

Louis Swart (37:30)

Okay, so you the third. So so you'd be you're probably a bit more relaxed than the others, but okay, so

Jeff Holman (37:36)

So we're

we're I'm I'm the black sheep of the family, if that matters. and I found out we was at a family I was at a family dinner the other night and I found out I I'm kind of I don't know, I don't I don't I don't need to get too personal here, but I somebody one one of my siblings started to share a story that I've I've heard many times. I was a part of it. But for the first time, and I'm almost fifty, right? For the first time, I realized this sibling actually

tells the story differently than I do. And that that difference is Jeff was partly to blame for what happened. And never, never before in my in in my entire life have I heard the story with that twist to it. And I'm not saying it's right or wrong from my perspective. It it wasn't how I remember it, but but it was it it really caught me off guard and kind of hit me. And I was like, well, they think that I was partly to blame for this situation. And and it made me

stop and think, well, there's a different perspective here than than the story I've been telling the whole time. So I don't know that that fits into any of this, but it's it's interesting because it's one of those childhood stories. I don't know, I can't remember how old I was at the time, but it was a we were talking about some things and it was a story from when I was probably twelve years old and and and th so this came up and I'm like, this it's a different version of the story. Okay.

Louis Swart (39:01)

But you see, if he's built that belief, he would have he would that belief would go with him. So he'd be looking for areas where he could reinforce that belief. If he built a belief at that time that you'd done something that was negative towards him, he would actually build a belief around that. And then next time he would be looking for things that you do that affect him.

Jeff Holman (39:26)

That reinforce that.

Louis Swart (39:28)

So he would constantly be looking for that. And you could do something that's amazing towards him and he wouldn't really even notice it because it wouldn't be in his in his rays, you know, his reticular activator system. Wouldn't even be there. But as soon as you did something that he could tie back to his belief, he would latch onto that because that reinforces his belief.

Jeff Holman (39:47)

And we do that to ourselves too, right? Is what you're saying. We we we have family experiences with siblings or parents or whoever in our lives and we log that in a certain way and then we keep reinforcing that, you know, thirty eight years later, we're still saying it the same way, even though what we saw as a twelve year old might have been might not have been the full picture.

Louis Swart (40:14)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Interesting. So, you know, as a as a as a kid, maybe you were playing on the floor and your younger brother came or younger sister came and they took your toy. Okay. And you were like you grabbed it back 'cause it's your toy, it belongs to you, it's yours, right? Okay. And mum or dad came and said, Jeff, stop being a naughty boy, you know? Don't be a horrible boy. Share that with your brother or your sister. And you built up a belief

I've got to give people things otherwise I won't they won't love me.

Jeff Holman (40:49)

Otherwise I'm a naughty boy.

Louis Swart (40:52)

Okay, yeah. Even though it's not fair, this belongs to me. It belongs to me, but I've got to give it to my sibling. Otherwise I won't get love. Right. And then that belief, you build up that belief that I have to give stuff of myself to get love. And now you go through life and you're looking for you're looking for places where you reinforce that.

Jeff Holman (41:15)

Is this why when I look back at business and I think, okay, I run my business differently than other people run theirs, right? And there there's always going to be some of that, whether it's like for competitive advantage purposes or or because of, you know, emotional behavioral upbringing purposes. But but sometimes I catch myself and I'm like, I'm like, why have I been doing it that way? Like I don't think I need to run this business that way. I don't think I need to work with certain people in a certain way. Like, like

And I and I catch myself and I say, like, I think I should change what I'm doing. I don't know why I ever decided to do it that way in the first place. It was more like a an unconscious decision or subconscious decision, something other than me thinking that it would be a good way to run business. And so I'll change it. Like today I'll change it going forward, but but man, I did that for the last five years or ten years or twenty years. that that that I and I do so is that part of is that something that people

Is that like part of the process, maybe not a formalized process where I'm saying, wait a second, I don't need to keep doing it this way. Is that where this leads to?

Louis Swart (42:23)

Absolutely. Well, I mean, remember we've got all these all these processes running and your brain uses up some of the you know, most energy of any organ in your body. Your brain's actually using up massive amounts of of energy. So what your brain does is we take in, you know, we take in depends who you talk to, but it's definitely in the millions, you know, somewhere up to twenty two million pieces of information every second. You know, you sit in there right now and you actually you actually in your mind, you've taken an

Everything around you, you've taken all the colours around you, you've taken in the feeling. You know, what do your feet feel like right now in your socks? If you think about your little toe, what does your little toe feel like right now in your sock? Your brain's actually got that information. So it's getting all this information in. Yeah. And what your brain is doing is it's actually filtering all this information and it's saying, Well, what's important? What do I need for Jeff today? Right? What do I need today to survive? And so it's filtering all this down into

you know, 128 pieces of information. It's filtering down into like eight pieces eight bytes, eight bits of information. So it's taken millions of pieces of information, filtered it down. And it's gone through all these beliefs and all these b you know, all your biases and beliefs and

Jeff Holman (43:38)

My natural filters.

Louis Swart (43:40)

to get there, to get to that piece of information. And that's why, you know, if if you got eight siblings and all eight siblings told a story, all seven siblings told the story, it would be a completely different story.

completely different story. Cause it they've filtered that whole story through their own perspectives.

Jeff Holman (43:58)

Why do we let these things into our business though? Like this story, I I don't know if it has, but this story about how I interacted with my sibling at one point and you know, he felt left alone and and I I felt like he was like he walked off and was lost and he felt like he was like he was abandoned, you know, two different sides of the same coin perhaps. But why do these types of things that seem very personal, non business related

creep into into a business setting. Like why should that affect how I run my business or how I even I don't know. Maybe I'm answering my question in my mind as I'm saying it well how I interact with other people, how I how I talk with my employees. Like I guess I guess it's because I have, as you're saying, from some point at some experience in my past, I established a rule in my mind, accurate or or correct or warranted or not. And I said, I

in order for X I need to do Y and now I'm doing that even in completely unrelated settings and people that were never a part of that story are are the recipients of how I behave now because of the rule that I created or the the behavior that I reinforced in my mind at that point in time. I mean that seems like I don't know. Is that a is that a a feature or a flaw?

Louis Swart (45:24)

It's definitely a feature. 'Cause remember you're in the tribe. You're in the family that's your tribe. And you want to stay in that tribe. You wanna be you wanna be safe in that tribe because otherwise you're gonna be in trouble if you're out there. And then you go into business and you wanna stay in that tribe. When you're in the business world, you wanna stay in that tribe, but now you become the CEO and you're running your own tribe, but you still wanna stay in that tribe. You want the tribe to still like you, 'cause I mean

You know, there's nothing stopping the tribe from saying we don't like the CEO and the the CEO's out on his own. And it's if you're out there if people don't love you, if they don't think you're worthy, if they don't you know, if they don't feel you're not safe, you're out on your own. No matter what position you are, whether it's in your family, working as this p person, running a business, those things are primal. And so

Sorry, I was I was telling you about the timeline. So with timeline therapy, you're you you had this thing with the toy, okay? And so your brother took it from you. And so then your mu your mum said, you know, Jeff, don't be a naughty boy. You know, share your toys with your brother. Okay. Yeah. And so you you you build this belief. And so you take that belief and you look for different areas in your life where you can enforce that belief. And they call them gestults. Okay. So

So how a distult works is you've got this belief that if I don't give something, people aren't gonna love me. And now you go to school and like you know, somebody comes up and says, Jeff, give us a sandwich, because you know, I I like your sandwiches more than mine. And you're like, I don't want to give you a sandwich and they're like, I don't like you, I don't want to be your friend anymore. And you go, Well, that must be true. Because when mom said, If I don't share my toy, she wasn't gonna love me. So it's gotta be true. So I've reinforced it. Okay.

then you go to play sport and you know, something happens in sport where you're not giving the guy the you know, you're not passing to the guy.

Jeff Holman (47:23)

Quit shooting all the time. Pass the ball. Pass the ball. Something.

Louis Swart (47:26)

Right. And now they're upset with you. And you go, well, that must be true. Because when I didn't give the guy my sandwich, it was true. When I was a kid it was true. So you've just made that belief like three times stronger. And you literally do that all through your life. So you get to this point where you don't even realise you don't even realise that you're just strengthening this belief like there's no tomorrow. You don't even realise that this belief is it in so incredibly strong in your mind and it actually controls everything that you do.

Jeff Holman (47:56)

So then when you get into business, you're like, someone says, Give me a raise or give me a discount or I need time off and you're like, Okay, okay, okay. Until eventually you say to yourself, Wait a second, why are my numbers not working? Like this financially is not working as a business. What's going on? I mean, is that that that's that's the that's the consequence that we're talking about eventually.

Louis Swart (48:17)

And you feel like you've got to you feel like if you don't please people they won't love you. And if they don't love you, you're gonna be out of the tribe. You

Jeff Holman (48:23)

Yeah.

Louis Swart (48:24)

so you build up this massive belief that you need to that you need to, you know, you need to please people, you need to give them more. You need you know, if somebody g buys you a coffee, you feel like you've got to buy them dinner because you know, otherwise they've got a hold on you. So they call these gestalts. Okay. And what happens is it's like a pearl necklace. Like if you take one of the pearls out.

If you break the pulls, then all of the pulls come out. That whole belief just falls apart. If you go back to you being a kid and you say, Well, was that really true? Did your mum say she wouldn't love you? And it's like, Well, she just wanted to keep peace in the house. So she w she wasn't saying that. That wasn't that wasn't true. And if it's not true then, was it true when the guy asked you for the sandwich at school? Well, that wasn't true. I mean he's just you know

Just a stupidness. This is what they said, yeah. He was if that wasn't true and that wasn't true, then all these other things aren't true.

So yeah, it's it's fascinating. It's fascinating to to work with. But I mean it's it's that extra thing that's gonna allow you to just go from being, you know, an average CEO to being amazing.

Jeff Holman (49:35)

What are the what are the results that you would see or expect when somebody is able to you know, break this string of pearls that's maybe been holding them back? W where do they where do people start to see the like if I were if I were making progress in this, let's say that this is something I was managing or dealing with, trying to improve on in my in my personal life, in my business life, where would I start to see that I'm making progress?

Louis Swart (50:05)

Personally. You'd you'd you'd you'd start seeing that personally you start looking at the world differently, okay? And personally you start feeling more happy inside. You know, you're not striving for external. You know, lots of us are striving for external validation. We want more money, we want more people to love us, we want you know, and I mean that's that's we s we lots of us are striving for that 'cause we don't have internal validation. We don't have internal love.

We don't really love ourselves. And so by doing this work, you actually start getting to that point where you go, Okay, that's why I'm doing this and you start building up this like a real, genuine internal love for yourself. And you don't rely as much on external validation from other people. And then you can start looking and saying, Well, what do I really want to do with my life? Yeah. Not what do I feel like I have to do to stay safe.

Jeff Holman (51:03)

It seems like that would play out in two different ways as I think about it, right? on the one hand, I'd be more comfortable making decisions that I think are the right decision. So I'm not making you know, decisions because of some other factor that me trying to stay safe or trying to be loved or trying to, you know, satisfy some of these some of these moments in my life that have just carried on, these gestalt you said, right?

So I I might make different decisions that I'm more comfortable with. But then y you're also saying I'm gonna just feel more at peace inside. I'm gonna feel more like I don't like like I don't need to satisfy everybody. I don't like and it's not that I'm isolating myself from that, but I'm almost empowering myself to be stronger in the midst of everyone else that I'm already dealing with.

So it sounds like it almost sounds like it like it leads to self confidence and which which I would expect people are gonna say, Boy, Jeff, you you seem more confident. You like I like I I I like how you're I like how you're leading out here maybe differently than you were leading out before, or you know, you're taking charge in a way that I haven't seen you do it before. Like does that so that that internal confidence then breeds into team confidence and leadership confidence. Is that the is that the general path?

Louis Swart (52:29)

Absolutely. Absolutely. If you don't feel like you've got to get external validation and you you can internally validate, you don't you don't necessarily need people as much. You know, it's like you're not a needy kind of person. You already you already believe that you you know, you've got you know that you that you're worthy. You don't need other people to tell you that you're worthy. And so that that gives you this a different type of confidence where people are drawn to you because

How are you you know, how are you different? How are you different? What is it that's different about you? W you know, w we we we know those people that walk into a room and they just exude confidence and you is there's something different about them.

Jeff Holman (53:13)

As opposed to the needy people, right? The I think we all we've all had that experience where we c you use that phrase needy people and it's like it's like nobody really wan like the needy person probably in some ways is in need, but we're we're all a little bit like, I don't I don't know whether I want to commit to that. That's that's like a that's like a a big commitment to fulfilling the needs for you. I've I've got my own issues. So that needy person is so it's not just that the maybe I'm just stating the obvious here, but th the

the confident person we're drawn to them. But then the opposite of that is the needy person. And we're kind of kind of we kind of reject that, I I think naturally.

Louis Swart (53:51)

Absolutely.

Jeff Holman (53:52)

I want to just kind of r bring this back around to the delegation issue. So so you work through these things, some because that's that's part of what you teach people, right? And I I don't want to create a false connection here, but I I imagine that there's a a pretty good connection between somebody who is dealing with their own limiting beliefs.

becoming a more confident person overall, happier, you love yourself more, you're able to show up differently for your team. And now that seems like that might even empower or unlock the ability to say, I I actually trust myself to give you the work, to teach you how to do it, to let you do it. And and I'm not I don't need to protect and preserve my own feelings.

by handing something off and then it not happening how I wanted without me li like is that is there a connection there between the empowerment of of dealing with your limiting beliefs and it leading into the ability to actually delegate?

Louis Swart (54:56)

Absolutely. 'Cause I mean we like I said in the beginning, we don't delegate because if I get other people to do something, I may not be safe because they might take the job. People might not think I'm worthy because they might be better at it than I am. Okay. you know, and I might not be loved because people will now not be coming to me for the answer. They'll be going to the person that I've delegated to for the answer. And so it comes back to those three things. So how do we how do we

get ourselves to a point where we're not looking for that external validation. We're not looking for that love and worthiness and safety from other people. We're realizing that as we build a team, I mean, in my team, I I currently have I mean my guys that do graphics are mind blowing. I would never even attempt to do the type of graphics that they do. My guy that does I've got a team that does AI, they build apps. They're incredible. I I wouldn't even start to

try and do the stuff that they do, you know? and so I've got all these different divisions where I've got people that are incredible at what they do and they and they're in a div they're in a division. But I I've had to come to the fact that, you know, if you want an AI solution, like I can be the front man, but I literally will refer you to my AI guy. He's incredible. Okay. And I think it's about us just building this team around us and us feeling safe

in the team, us feeling safe in ourselves. Yeah. That we, you know, that we're the ones that have that we're the ones that are still in control of this thing. Even though sometimes, you know, there's a there's a story. I'll tell you a story that I love. They they're cutting this road through the Amazon forest and it's in the old days, you know. And they've got axes and there's guys chopping with these axes and they they set up an axe sharpening station and they've got a

You know, they've got like a storehouse where they're giving guys PPE, you know, the protective equipment. And they're all working away and they're chopping the trees and they go, Where's the boss? Where's the boss? And they go, he should be here. He should be here. He should be chopping the trees, okay? Because he's great at chopping trees. He should be chopping cheese with us. And or at least he should be helping us chop in the axes or he should be doing something. And they they they have this whole big thing. They're like, We're gonna go find the boss. And they they all go they go off to go look for the boss and

There he is and he's climbed up the tallest tree in the Amazon and he's just sitting on the top of the tree and they're like, What are you doing? What are you doing? And he's like, I'm I'm making sure that we're all working in the right direction. I'm looking ahead to make sure we're cutting this road through the forest in the right direction. And that's a lonely place, being the guy on top of the tree.

Jeff Holman (57:40)

I like that story. Yeah. There's it's a it's a role that not everybody gets not everybody gets to sit at the top of the tree, otherwise there's no road being cut.

Louis Swart (57:50)

Yeah.

Jeff Holman (57:51)

But not everybody who's cutting the road will appreciate the guy at the top of the tree.

Louis Swart (57:56)

They don't. They don't because the guy's cutting the guys you know, the guy who's sharpening the axe, he's like, I'm sharpening the axe much better than the guy doing the tree. I should actually be the guy in charge. And the guy who's the best chopping the trees, he feels like he should maybe be in charge.

Jeff Holman (58:11)

Yeah. This has been a fascinating conversation. I I think I've you you got you really got me thinking about some of the things that you know, scenarios maybe in my own my own business or life and some of the clients that I've worked with and I think I think, you know, where where has their success come from or maybe what's led to some of the failures that that I've that I've seen happen. and how many of those might be tied to limiting beliefs versus

people who've actually been able to manage and deal with and overcome some of their limiting beliefs. It's a it's I'm sure it's a deep topic with a a well that's hard to reach the bottom, with with this topic. So

Louis Swart (58:52)

But it's so worth it. It's so worth it if you can get to the bottom of this. You know. Do you want to get to the bottom of it now and, you know, have the rest of your life amazing, or do you wanna wait till you're on your deathbed and go, jeez, that's what's actually what's going on.

Jeff Holman (59:07)

But we do that, don't we? I mean, I don't I don't wanna I don't wanna go too far into this because I want to be respectful of your time, but but we do that. We we sit and say it's it's sharpening the axe. You mentioned the sharpening station and and I that may be another aspect to the analogy you're doing, but it's you know, Stephen Covey's seven habits of highly effective people or highly successful people. I can't remember which one it was. sharpening the axe, and if we're if we're not willing to sharpen the axe, if we're if we're always looking to be busy, we never take the time to s stop being busy, we we think we're being

successful, but we never actually deal with the underlying issues that could unlock something greater. So well I Lewis, I really appreciate you coming on the show. I really appreciate you sharing your insights with everybody. It's it's it's been a great conversation. where if people want to get a hold of you, aside from going meeting you at the opera bar in Sydney for drinks, what what's a good way to get a hold of you?

Louis Swart (1:00:04)

Look, you you can go to Louiswart.com. so just my name, Louiswart.com, and literally just book in a coffee chat. Book in a half an hour coffee chat. Let's just have a chat and see how I can help you. You know?

Jeff Holman (1:00:18)

Fantastic.

Louis Swart (1:00:19)

It it doesn't cost you anything. and and and if we if we gel then we can work together. Amazing, amazing. Then let's work out how we can work to you know, how I can yeah yeah, really, really help you. And if we don't gel, that's fine. You know, we just have a

Where we chat and move on.

Jeff Holman (1:00:37)

Well thank you so much for coming on the show. really appreciate everything you brought.

Louis Swart (1:00:42)

Thank you so much, Steph. Really, really appreciate you. And I just want to say, you know, the work that you're doing is incredible. You know, you I I think more and more we need to help people to condense time. And the more we can condense time, the the more effective we can be. Because, you know, you can do like I did. I've lost millions. I've tens of millions, okay. I've lost, you know, tens of millions on this journey. Or you can just go, hey man, how do we condense that?

I don't to lose that money. I want to learn from what you're doing. And I mean, that's what you're doing. You're literally just bringing all these experts into a room and you're saying, listen to this podcast. These guys have been there. They've actually made all the mistakes. You don't even know what the next devil is. You haven't got to the next level and you don't know what the devils are that are waiting on that level. Come and listen to a podcast like this. Just learn about the levels, learn about the devils. You die. I love it. So thank you so much.

Jeff Holman (1:01:38)

It's

been a pleasure. Thank you and thank you to our audience for joining us on another episode of the Breakout CEO. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And if you enjoy the show, a rating or a review goes a long way. Our mission is to promote the stories of breakout CEOs in scaling SaaS, e-commerce, and tech companies to equip peer CEOs with valuable perspectives and confidence.

Thanks again for joining us on this episode of the Breakout CEO. I'm Jeff Holman, and I'll see you next time.

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