Scaling a business requires structure. Processes become more formal. Communication becomes more standardized. Technology absorbs work that was once handled through direct interaction. Leadership attention shifts toward systems, metrics, and execution.
Those changes are necessary.
The challenge is that growth often weakens the very relationships that helped create success in the first place.
Employees gain access to more tools but less access to leaders. Communication becomes efficient but less personal. Culture becomes something organizations describe rather than something people experience.
Richard Blank argues that this tension sits beneath many of the leadership challenges growing companies face. The question is not whether a company should become more disciplined as it scales. The question is how leaders preserve human connection while building a larger and more efficient organization.
That decision shapes trust, engagement, retention, communication quality, and ultimately performance.
Many organizations treat connection as a cultural initiative that exists alongside the real work of scaling. Blank views it differently.
He sees human connection as part of the operating system.
Throughout the conversation, he returns repeatedly to the role shared experiences play in creating trust. Whether discussing family travel, workplace interactions, or the arcade and pinball machines he maintains at his company, the underlying principle remains consistent. People remember experiences that create genuine connection.
Those experiences become reference points.
Years later, employees may not remember a policy change, a process update, or a company presentation. They remember moments. They remember conversations. They remember interactions that made them feel seen, respected, or understood.
For CEOs, that matters because trust rarely emerges from organizational messaging. It develops through accumulated experiences.
As organizations grow, creating those experiences requires more intention. Left alone, scale naturally pushes companies toward efficiency. Connection has to be protected.
One of the first casualties of growth is leadership accessibility.
Calendars become crowded. Organizational layers increase. Executives spend more time managing through managers rather than interacting directly with employees.
Some distance is unavoidable. No CEO can personally maintain the same level of contact that existed when the company employed ten people.
Blank's argument is not that leaders should eliminate hierarchy. His argument is that leaders should remain visible.
For years, he built his leadership approach around direct interaction. Walking the floor. Having conversations during breaks. Creating opportunities for employees to engage with him outside formal management channels.
The benefit was larger than employee morale.
Accessibility improves information quality.
As organizations scale, information becomes filtered. Problems travel through multiple layers before reaching leadership. Context is lost. Signals become diluted.
Leaders who maintain direct contact with employees gain a clearer understanding of operational reality. They see friction before it appears in reports. They hear concerns before they become retention problems.
Accessibility is not simply a cultural gesture. It is a mechanism for maintaining visibility into the organization.
Blank's view of leadership was shaped by spending time in the same environment as the people he managed.
As he put it, "The greatest ones learn it from the inside out."
The observation speaks to a common challenge in growing companies. Success often moves leaders farther away from the work that originally built the business.
Over time, dashboards replace conversations. Metrics replace observation.
Both are necessary. Neither tells the whole story.
Leaders who understand frontline realities tend to make different decisions because they understand the conditions under which performance actually occurs. They recognize where frustration accumulates. They see the gap between what processes are intended to accomplish and how they are experienced by employees.
This perspective creates empathy, but it also creates judgment.
A leader who understands the realities behind performance metrics can distinguish between execution problems and structural problems. That distinction becomes increasingly important as organizations become more complex.
The strongest cultures are often built by leaders who remain connected to the experience of the people responsible for delivering results.
Few leadership capabilities are discussed more frequently than communication.
Few are practiced as deliberately.
Blank has spent decades teaching communication in an environment where performance depends on it. His perspective is straightforward: communication is not a personality trait. It is a trainable business skill.
That distinction matters because many leaders assume strong communicators possess a natural advantage that others simply do not have.
Blank's experience suggests otherwise.
Communication improves through deliberate practice. Listening improves through deliberate practice. Confidence improves through deliberate practice.
The professionals he trained were not succeeding because they happened to be gifted speakers. They succeeded because they learned how to listen carefully, communicate clearly, and maintain productive conversations under pressure.
The same principle applies to leadership.
Communication is one of the few executive skills that affects every function simultaneously. Strategy, culture, execution, recruiting, accountability, and customer relationships are all influenced by how leaders communicate.
Blank's advice was simple: "Don't be lazy with your speech."
Behind that statement is a larger idea. Precision matters. Preparation matters. Attention matters.
The quality of leadership communication influences the quality of organizational execution.
When Blank reflects on the patterns he has observed throughout his career, one theme appears repeatedly.
Fear.
"The first is fear."
Not fear in a dramatic sense. Fear in the practical sense.
Fear of rejection.
Fear of uncertainty.
Fear of criticism.
Fear of success.
Fear of discovering that the opportunity is larger than expected and requires more from us than we anticipated.
Many executive decisions that appear operational are influenced by these concerns. Entering a new market. Hiring a senior executive. Launching a new initiative. Expanding into unfamiliar territory.
Analysis is valuable, but every significant decision eventually reaches a point where certainty disappears.
Action still has to occur.
Blank's own story reflects that reality. Moving to Costa Rica. Rejecting an expected career path. Building a business from scratch. None of those decisions were supported by complete information.
They were supported by conviction.
The lesson is not that leaders should become reckless. It is that fear should not become the decision-maker.
Organizations often suffer more from delayed decisions than imperfect decisions. Growth rarely rewards certainty. It rewards thoughtful action despite uncertainty.
One of the most useful observations from the conversation is that culture is built through interaction, not declaration.
Organizations often attempt to define culture through values statements and internal messaging. Those efforts can be useful. They are rarely sufficient.
Employees form opinions about culture through what they experience every day.
How people communicate.
How leaders behave.
How conflict is handled.
How success is recognized.
How approachable leadership feels.
Blank's arcade machines became an unexpected illustration of this principle.
The machines themselves were irrelevant.
What mattered was the environment they created.
People from different departments interacted. Employees saw leadership in a different context. Conversations occurred that otherwise might never have happened.
The outcome was not entertainment. The outcome was trust.
For leaders, the lesson extends well beyond pinball machines or break rooms.
Culture is not created through statements about what an organization values. It is created through repeated experiences that demonstrate those values in practice.
Richard Blank's entrepreneurial story includes plenty of unconventional details. He left an expected path, moved to another country, and built a people-intensive business around communication and development.
The more important lesson is what he learned along the way.
Growth creates pressure for efficiency. Every organization needs systems, discipline, and operational rigor.
But leaders who focus exclusively on those areas often discover they have weakened the relationships that make execution possible.
Human connection is easy to undervalue because it does not appear on a dashboard. It is difficult to measure. It develops slowly. Its effects are often indirect.
Yet it influences nearly everything leaders care about.
Trust.
Retention.
Communication quality.
Engagement.
Performance.
Accessibility creates stronger information flows. Communication creates confidence. Shared experiences strengthen relationships. Culture emerges from those relationships over time.
The leadership challenge is not choosing between connection and scale.
It is preserving connection while scale is happening.
That was the central decision running beneath Richard Blank's story, and it remains one of the most consequential decisions a growing CEO will make.
Richard Blank is the Founder and CEO of Costa Rica's Call Center. After relocating from the United States to Costa Rica, he built a business centered on communication, employee development, and leadership accessibility. His perspective is shaped by decades of experience training thousands of customer-facing professionals and leading a business where trust, communication, and human connection directly influence performance.
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
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The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY:
00:00 Introduction to Richard Blank & His Unique Journey
01:35 Building a Pinball Paradise in Costa Rica
05:21 Why Shared Experiences Create Stronger Connections
09:09 The Psychology of Human Connection & Sales
17:21 Cold Calling Masterclass: Getting Past the Gatekeeper
23:57 Starting a Call Center in Costa Rica From Scratch
28:18 Growing a Business Through People & Culture
32:16 Fear, Rejection, and the Courage to Bet on Yourself
40:34 Teaching Confidence Through Communication Skills
45:03 The Coming-of-Age Moments That Shaped Richard Blank
48:37 Losing Company Culture During the Remote Work Era
55:28 Leadership Lessons From Pinball Machines & Business
01:02:07 Final Advice for Entrepreneurs and CEOs
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Richard Blank (00:00)
The first is fear. I'm I shattered that misconception. I didn't want to be put in a box. I wanted to see what I could do. How do you compete?
Jeff Holman (00:09)
Welcome back everybody to the Breakout CEO podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman. I am so excited today. ⁓ I am hoping I can keep up with the energy of our guest. I've heard Richard Blank speak a little bit before and I'm like, I gotta I gotta up my game today to keep up with with Richard. Richard, it's it's so good to have you on the show.
Richard Blank (00:28)
Jeff, so happy to be with you. Can't wait to share ideas. Have a good time. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (00:32)
We're gonna have great time here today. So ⁓ you came recommended from somebody. It sounds like we were just talking before this, ⁓ we might have a couple cross connections ⁓ in the podcasting world, ⁓ former guest, somebody who helped me ⁓ early on with the with the show. ⁓ several several connections going on there. I I think you're a pretty well connected guy too, overall, aren't you?
Richard Blank (00:54)
The greatest compliment, Jeff, is when people speak about you behind your back in a good way. So your reputation precedes you.
Jeff Holman (01:01)
Yep. Yep. So so I you came highly recommended to c to come on and share your experience starting up ⁓ the Costa Rica call center. And we'll get into that stuff. That's I think you've been doing that for for quite a while. But I have to I have to start out by asking maybe the really obvious question. Maybe you're sick of telling people about it, but what in the world is going on with this ⁓ the the the collections that you have? You you collect a few things and
some some ⁓ arcade machines or some pinball machines, something like that, right? Where did that all come from?
Richard Blank (01:35)
When I was growing up in the eighties, everyone wanted Ricky Schroeder's Silver Spoons arcade. And finally, when I had some cash and time in the room, I went out and bought it. One man's treasure is another man's treasure. Arcades are going out of business. And so I don't mind driving a couple hours with a wad full of twenties, a couple of my buddies, and bringing back these machines and restoring them. So currently thirteen pinball machines, five jukeboxes, and I'm living a childhood dream. I actually have
A beautiful home arcade. I get to play. And ⁓ thank you for bringing that up. If someone follows through on their passion and really truly knows what makes them happy, it's nothing like buying that painting and putting it on the wall. It just gives you joy. And when I play those machines, I can decompress. I love to restore them. And my favorite decade is the 1970s. You get one of those electromechanical machines.
the artwork, the marquees, just the gameplay. So I fall in love with them and I know what I like. But anyone that comes visits me, you get to play as much as you
Jeff Holman (02:42)
What's the furthest you've traveled to to pick up one of these machines?
Richard Blank (02:46)
I'll
go five hours for this. Yeah. I've shipped them from the United States. Let me put it this way. You're willing to do whatever it takes. And but it's interesting. I I've seen the extremes. I've seen the guy that just has them in a bodega with a bunch of other machines. He just picks them up and tries to resolve them. And then you have the collector. It's up in the mountains, a guy from Canada moved on. He's gotta get rid of it. And so
When they put it out there, there's very few of us in this country. A very good friend of mine, Martin, up in Tamarindo, he collects them as well and restores them. So he and I are always treasure hunting. But we're we're a small crew, we know the value. A lot of people just think they're turnkey. No, that you you really need to replace certain parts and keep them well. And the worst thing you could ever do is bump and move a machine. It's the biggest insult if you're playing with somebody. And so ⁓
My point being is if you can find a beautiful classic for under a thousand or two thousand dollars, put it in your living room. All your friends will hang out. It's better than a piano. It's not like the nineteen fifties. So yeah, yeah, a lot of people will hang out, do some retro gaming, and you'll be the talk.
Jeff Holman (03:57)
Well, I love that. It i I have not spent time in Costa Rica, but when you you know when you said you had this collection, but you're in you're in co my thought was you're in Costa Rica. Is this is there a lot of this in Costa Rica or is this like even harder to find because of where you're at?
Richard Blank (04:12)
Yeah,
like unicorns, so few and far between. And my friend Martin, myself, Don Francisco and a couple other players were always looking. And so when something comes up, we jump at it, we share the ideas, we figure out collectively how to save this treasure and put them in a home where they're played and and taken care of. But ⁓ these arcades are so out of business.
I did it at my call center just to create a happy medium and a place for people to let off steam and meet each other. But as much as I thought back in my time, people would be lining up to play Pac-Man and air hockey, these kids would rather be on their phone looking at Japanese anime or Instagram or not talking to one another. And so I can't push them on it. But at least if they've played it, they've known that they've experienced something that either their parents have or they'll never be able to play again. And if they see it in an old movie or
someone reference it, they're like, hey, at least I I did play this incredible machine. But they see my passion. It's a great way for them to hit me on the shoulder in the morning and say, hey boss, how you doing? And so what a nice place for me.
Jeff Holman (05:21)
I love that. And you you bring up this point about connection and experience. I mean that I I'm gonna ask you later in the show. I don't know when and I don't know how it's gonna come up, but I'm sure it's gonna come up because I cause I'm gonna say how does this relate back to collecting pinballs, the business side of things, and I don't know what that answer is gonna be. ⁓ I'm prepping you now for the question because I I feel like I w we've got to draw some connection there if that's possible. But but but you bring up the you you bring up this idea of
people connecting with the game or with the past or having had the experience. ⁓ and and I just I was mentioning to you, you know, I'm I'm just less than twenty-four hours back from from Italy with the family. And I I feel the same way about travel. You know, y whether whether we spend ⁓ you know an afternoon going through the Coliseum or four days or five days in, you know, the French countryside, like being able to go somewhere and experience it.
It might be a little bit like being able to experience the pinball game from the past and you've you've at least been there. You may not live there, you may not go back anytime soon, but you've been there and it just I don't know. It's it's adds a depth to the ex to kind of the human experience. Is that kind of what you're describing with the pinball machines?
Richard Blank (06:37)
Good friend. Jeff, you're so busy. Look at your daily routine with your four kids, your beautiful wife, and your business. It's a crazy circle. And when you and I, prior to the podcast, discussed your incredible trip to Italy, ⁓ the way you were describing it, it was like a kid on a Saturday, just climbing trees and having fun and playing games. And so it's it's nice to see that balance, Jeff, that you have that in your life and that you drink life. And I asked you, how did your children feel about that? Was it
a life changing experience. And you said, absolutely. And so it just doesn't have to be the Coliseum or Venice. Okay. Just snapping out of this zone people are in and having some sort of different stimulation. You're in the now. And if somebody laughs, you see a different side of them. Somebody cries, you see. And if you're standing there at the Coliseum with your children and you're not even saying a single word, but you're taking it in.
Look at that bonding and anchoring and bridging experience. So 10 years from I'm like, hey kids, remember the Coliseum? You're like, yeah, box, that was the best trip. Thank you so much. I really got to feel like now when I see Maximus and Gladiator, I get it. You're like, yeah, man. And so you're you're enriching their culture. You're expanding their thoughts. And I'm not saying that pinballs the be-all end all. Their boss loves it. And I want them to see that I'm not.
Threatening and enjoy the lights and the sound. Why? Because you're about to walk upstairs and make eight hours worth of phone calls. So if you can, if you can somehow go through the Willy Wonka chocolate river before going to work, maybe it reduces attrition. You might meet someone from another department. You might laugh with me. And so I'm just trying to recreate a a neutral form of happy energy. You did it through art and through travel in my
Confined, controlled space. I put in life. I allowed you to do something that's play. So you can go back to the earlier days and when you were just free. Yeah. Everyone's so serious these days. That's why the movie Big with Tom Hanks was great. I was dancing on a piano with the owner of the company. Why do you think the guy got promoted so fast?
The kids that can play Pac-Man with me, hang out with their boss, get a slice of pizza, those are the ones that are rising to the top because they get the culture and they're able to connect with people on a wonderful level.
Jeff Holman (09:09)
Yeah, I man, brings so many things to to mind. I've seen friends who go snowmobiling with their bosses and they seem to do a lot better than I do when I'm like, No, I don't have time to go rock climbing with you. There there is a an experience and and I wonder if you're i you might be emulating ⁓ between you and your employees exactly what you're asking your employees to do with the people they're calling, right? You you you've presented an opportunity to c for them to connect with you.
Richard Blank (09:21)
You know
Jeff Holman (09:38)
And I've I w I we haven't gotten into your call center business yet at all. But at some level you you're you're inviting your employees to find a connection with the people they're calling, right? That you gotta find that common ground. Otherwise you get you get I I imagine, they get a lot of, hey, not today. ⁓ you know, take me off your call list or whatever that is, I I'm not doing that. But when you but when they connect over something that's more human
Richard Blank (09:54)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (10:07)
I'll bet the success rates just go through the roof. Just a quick note about our guests. I host the Breakout CEO podcast to share behind the scenes insights from scaling businesses. As an attorney, I see the real challenges leaders face long before success becomes public. But clients' stories have to stay confidential. So we invite guest CEOs to share their own moments of struggle and success. I'm so grateful to our guests and my team at Intellectual Strategies.
For making this show possible. Now let's get back to the show.
Richard Blank (10:41)
Absolutely. I'd like to finish your last comment about snowmobiling with your boss. Yeah. No, Jeff, that that's your time. That's your family time. I'm not asking you to go out drinking with me after work. I never did that with my boss. Not like I'm a straight lace. You don't need to know my stories. I'm not hanging out till seven, eight o'clock taking shots. You gotta be kidding me. Then I say I gotta make some money. So I respect my time and I respect your time. I'm not gonna ask for that extra time unless it's the Christmas part.
something. But I'm talking about your two 15 minute breaks and one half an hour lunch and during the day a potential knock on my door. If you see me downstairs and you'd rather be on Instagram compared to hanging out with me or knocking on my door. Hey what's up Jeff? Hey Richie, just gotta let you know boss I got three today. Man, you know come on. Yeah. Positive escalation, positive reinforcement. That's all. I'm not gonna force you to hang out with me after work. It's not cool. That's your time. I just wanted to let you know that as a boss.
But if you found time to meet with me in the middle during office hours, that means that it the light is attracted. So now let's get back to you making phone calls. The first thing you have to do is have romantic deaths. Why, you're making 200 phone calls in a day. You said you're gonna get hung up on. It's not my fault. But I also believe in jumping clouds and romantic deaths. What do you mean? You might get shot down at the eighth grade dance.
All your boys are envious of you. You had the guts to walk across that floor and ask Susan Ellis to dance. Just wasn't happening. You know, just wasn't that day. And so it it builds character. And so what I try to do here, I want to extend and pay forward specific soft skills, or let's just say, bedside manner, diplomacy and strategy, and perfect delivery.
So what you do on the phone, and we'll get to that in a minute, you and I can do outside of the office, Jeff. I can save a marriage or a Thanksgiving dinner, and I can make beautiful friends and have a very nice life if I learn how to communicate and especially listen properly. We're on a Zoom right not a zoom, we're on a video call right now. We get to see each other, but the majority of these calls are sight on scene.
So if you're removing your taste, touch, and smell, your hearing should be expanded. Understand. But then again, there's something called image streaming. You should be using extremely colorful and descriptive vocabulary. And you should be thinking of 30-second checkpoints. You speak, me speak, some pausing and confirmations. Check, move on. First down. Then you get touchdowns. You might have to grind it out. Maybe you have to go 12 routes in this fight. These aren't knockouts, but
If you really want to make a nice first impression, do some due diligence. You and I listened to each other's podcast corresponded prior to this today. So we such momentum. We're already starting as strangers, which are friends that have not met yet. And so that was very interesting today, Jeff. It's we both really knew of one another prior to personally meeting. And so if you have the time and luxury, do that. But if not, give yourself a solid first impression.
I usually like to say a company name spike. If I called your company, I'd go the breakout CEO. How you doing today? You wanna say we're good and hang out with me? Fine, Jeff. Do 200 times a day. At least what a romantic does. I said the name of your podcast better than you did. And so what usually happens there is a strategy. I'm using anonymity, not for the whole call. That's shady.
But if I give my first impression, why not give you the box with a bow and it's a mystery box? You have no idea what it is, but you know it looks and sounds good. I said the name of the company, I'm non threatening. Judy, your secretary, is gonna snap out of it. You told me earlier, hey, we're not interested, hang up or take me off the list. You're not gonna get that from Judy. She's gonna give you a positive reinforcement. She's gonna say, Who's this? compared to why are you calling and take me off the list? Yeah. And then you would say, Hi, my name is Jeff Holman.
It's Richard Blank. And then you're gonna double dip. They're not gonna say, is this a sales call? Take me off your list. You still are riding on the vibe of the company name spike. You could still be Jeff's best friend or best client. She still has to be nice with you, doesn't know who you are yet. So then you double dip. And then she would Well, who is Richard Blank? Thank you, Judy. So at least you got it. You got the foot in the door, you reduce some defense that they have. You
Reduce the anonymity because you told them out. You said the name of their company better than they did. You properly introduced yourself. All right. Now you got a fair shot at it. Now it's play. And then I got something better for you. Before I get transferred to you, Jeff is the CEO of the breakout CEO. I'm gonna let Judy know that she was very nice, professional, helpful, whatever. And I'm gonna say I'm gonna let Jeff know too.
Jeff Holman (15:40)
Your odds have gone way up.
Richard Blank (15:55)
So I get transferred, and before even introducing myself, it's not the company name spike, I already did that. Hi, this is Joe. ⁓ it just gotta let you know Judy's great. I have no idea who I am. But naturally you're gonna go, of course she is. Who is this? It's Richard Black. Who is Richard Black? There's your 30 seconds. Positive escalation in there. You complimented Judy. Now you you you do your pitch, military alphabet, tie-down questions, transitional sentences.
Wrap it all up, meeting minutes. Mention Judy in the email because it's a written escalation. That's even better. And then when you call back for Jeff's meeting Tuesday at three o'clock, Judy answers the phone. Ring me. Hey Judy. Is this Richard Blank? Yes, it is. Heroes, welcome. ⁓ by the way, before you get on with Jeff, A, B, C, and D. Anniversaries, kids' baseball game, trip to Italy, you name it. Just additional.
Goodies, like when they straighten Bud Fox's tie in Wall Street before meeting Gordon Gecko, sometimes the gatekeeper can be your greatest ally once you understand the parameters in company culture. And so I always believe by that first impression of good faith has at least increased my metrics of giving me a 30-second shot of potentially speaking with a decision maker.
Jeff Holman (17:21)
Man, I feel like that's a whole lesson. Like that's a semester of communications right there. university level studies. ⁓ the ⁓ just that was like the intro to be unpacked over the next six months, right? How do you how do you take this and and translate this? Cause you're again, not to not to be so mystified by it myself, but to, you know, s resolve that for for me. How did you take all of this and
Richard Blank (17:34)
Okay.
Jeff Holman (17:49)
And decide to do the do a company where you're able to kind of bring the magic not only into a a difficult, maybe, maybe difficult. I I think from the outside perceived as difficult line of business, but do it in a totally different language. Like that seems like, let's ⁓ let's make let's make take something hard and make it harder and then be successful at it. Is it am I I don't know, am I out and left field that that this is
a hard industry or that doing it in a in another language in another country adds complexity to it. What is your take on having started a business outside the you know, being from the US, out start a business outside outside the US in a different language and ⁓ an industry that can be seen as difficult perhaps?
Richard Blank (18:38)
I'm gonna give you two visuals and then I'll get serious. Okay. ⁓ Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark. Look at the beginning of that movie. Did you just want them walking in the cave and walk it out? Come on, life is about zig and zags and twists and turns, and you need a hero's journey, or it's not a good journey at all. Then every James Bond movie was incredible for even the opening credits. Yeah, pack it on. Another country, different language, far from my home.
What else you want to give me? Give it all. As long as it's not illegal or something that is is unethical. Yeah. Why not? Come on, Jeff. What else are you gonna do? It's just like another adventure. But I tell you what, I made very good decisions. I was building on momentum initially. Spanish was my major in college, so by moving to a country where Spanish is their main language, I was one of the Anglo-Saxons, the extra arrows, one of the
North Americans from the United States that was capable of communicating properly in their language. So that was a great first impression. Also it was a wonderful defense if I didn't let people know that I spoke Spanish. Wanted to make sure that everything is cool. And so I sometimes was reserved. And so that worked to my advantage. Secondly, when I came here, I was with friends, and so a friend of mine owned a center here.
I was only supposed to be teaching English for 60 days. When I walked into that environment, the average age was 24. It was like 13th grade. It's like post-college. It was fun. And all these individuals, such learned bilingual individuals, were talking on the phone. And I I knew this. There's certain environments where you know you could do it. You just need to learn it. And when I was there and I sat with the people,
Hey, Mr. CEO. The greatest ones learn it from the inside out. There was a movie back in the day called Brew Baker with Robert Redford. It was incredible. He was like a ⁓ prisoner before he became the warden. Inside you know, the undercover boss. And so say what you want about my nineteen years as a CEO. The greatest experience I got was walking in the roads and sitting with the people and seeing what it was like to take calls for eight hours a day.
Jeff Holman (20:51)
Yeah, yeah.
Richard Blank (21:05)
Huh. And so ⁓ it gave me the inside in regards to empathy and the things that made people break and what got them to even cry. And so I wanted to, when I sat there, avoid all those things at all costs, because I was in those shoes and I know what it takes. And I and I tell you what, the telemarketing has a bad rap and Hollywood glamorizes it, but there is a a lot of retention agents at companies that save accounts.
There are superior customer support executives that are able to clarify doubt, get referrals, get upsells. You name it. These are individuals that are so frontline. And unlike today, ⁓ Jeff, where people are looking for non-voice support, such as chat, email, texting, AI, and I'm with that. It's excellent for gathering and communicating. But when you and I are
Or heightened with anxiety, stress, or even excitement. You you may want to speak with somebody, especially if it's with a law firm, a doctor's office, an airline, you name it. And so people are willing to still press zero. So empathy could be extended and they can get their stress out or speak to a supervisor and compliment you. And so ⁓ yes, a portion, if not a good portion, of my industry will be replaced with frontline AI gathering voice response.
Okay, but when somebody needs to get that ball into the end zone or really have that relationship with somebody, there will be incredible people that will be working with them. And so ⁓ Uncanny Valley, the more that these machines sound, look, and act like us, especially with natural pausing, it's gonna freak us out a little bit. And as much as you like a thousand prints, I'll still pay for the one painting. I'll still take the individual.
And so I I I still believe in my industry we'll have that sort of longevity. And so I hope in a certain roundabout way, my friend, that answers your question.
Jeff Holman (23:10)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I think it does. ⁓ it's ⁓ there's a there's a challenge to I mean, everybody who's starting their own business, ⁓ you you do it. I'd say eyes wide open, but they're only open as wide as you can open them, right? We we don't know everything we're jumping into, but we but we do it because we we like the we like the challenge. You know, and so it's so I I can see that. That it's getting into the challenge and adding in the another country or another language.
That's just ⁓ incremental challenge on top of the challenge that you're already seeking out actively anyway. So so that makes sense. thanks for walking through that. You've been doing this since was it two thousand eight or two thousand nine that you've been doing this as the CEO after your
Richard Blank (23:57)
Didn't start like you think.
Jeff Holman (23:59)
how to tell us how it started.
Richard Blank (24:01)
No, first the website with Flash. ⁓ back in October of two thousand and seven and then February sixth of two thousand and eight, I landed my first account, which was one seat for one week. I I don't do that now. But that was my buddy and wanted to test me. ⁓ and then we grew. Our largest at one time was 187. But how do you grow a company in another country with limited funds? And so
I I was renting space, Jeff, at like a seat at an internet cafe, really. So I was doing station by station, that was turner key. It wasn't a real internet cafe, it was an office that was running me roads as I could grow. And so know, they had IT support, it wasn't glamorous, but it was exciting. It was it was raw. And so there was a certain point where my pay per seat.
It was too much. I could be getting my own space and starting to build a company. So after two and a half years and I had stable clients and some capital, I rented space and started buying second hand Dells because I didn't want to pay eighty percent import tax for brand new computers. So thankfully in my industry I could scale with used furniture and equipment, which was amazing. And let them pay for the import.
And so did that for six years, and then I decided to purchase a building and equip it for three hundred people, and then COVID hit and everyone went home. So I'm sitting on a building and everyone's working from home. And so it was gradual stage, as grandma says, if you don't do it in cash, don't do it at all. And I was extremely responsible with the labor laws and payments here, because I'm a guest here. The last thing I want, and I saw this in movies, is what pick pitchforks and torches.
I don't need that. I just want to be well liked and well respected as I'm a guest here.
Jeff Holman (25:57)
Yes. I've I've been in a few countries and a few situations where I'm like, I ⁓ I I don't feel like I'm like I'm far enough away from that middle line at the moment, ⁓ being being asked to do things or being threatened by other people who don't like what I'm doing and you know, I'm like I'm like I'm the attorney, but ⁓ but I've got local counsel, I'll call local counsel, we'll have them handle this one. So I I kinda kinda know what you're talking about i in a sense there. But ⁓
Well so so this is this has been a a bootstrap business then for you and you you've built it up that way mostly, it sounds like.
Richard Blank (26:33)
Had no partners. I didn't want to have to make desperate decisions. And ⁓ I I wish I was fancier in the beginning and might have landed different clients. But in my industry, thankfully, eighty percent of my clients never came to Costa Rica. So they didn't see the initial
look of the center, but i it really wasn't that. I mean, say what you want. I I love working out. I've been doing it since I was 17. I've worked out in so many different types of gyms. As long as it's clean and the equipment doesn't isn't break, I I don't need the bells and the whistles. And so like Rocky III, he trained in the fancy gym and got beat up and then went to the gym with Apollo with the leaking pipes and the eye of the tiger and look what it produced. The greatest gym I ever trained in was called Ed's Gym.
on the top of Foxcroft Pavilion in Jakontown, Pennsylvania. When I was working out with guys that were getting off of the construction site, I'm in high school, these guys are ripping it. And so you gotta understand gym etiquette and make you step up, you see men that are three times your size. And so it was so funny, man. There was like Corey Everson and Heather Thomas posters on the wall listening to Y S P. That was cool back in the eighties. Should have been there. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (27:49)
I love that. Well, no, but that's a that's how a lot of businesses start up. There's there there's no no shame in starting up in an efficient way, right? Like that's how you do it and and and you're in a people business, like for what it's worth. It's ⁓ every business to a large extent is people business, but you're in a very, very f people forward business, both ⁓ having a lot of employees or or people on your team and then also those people are all interacting with other people all day long.
Richard Blank (27:59)
Totally the people.
Jeff Holman (28:18)
you know, two hundred calls a day. It's extremely people focused business. Have you always been a people person? I mean you're very you're very outgoing, very, you know, very gregarious or whatever the right word might be. You're you're you're easy to talk with. You you're very expressive. So you've got the characters. Have you have you always had this kind of this ⁓ tendency to be the outgoing people person?
Richard Blank (28:42)
Well man, I guess it's two extremes. I'm never really in the middle. I mean I'm always, as you say, on in a certain way if I'm hitting the gym, playing pinball, washing the car, doing podcasts. But there are times where it's not being introverted, it's just balance. Yeah. Quietness, alone time. I can't say meditation, but there are certain social situations where I'm more the observer. I don't want to compete or it's just not my place or just not feeling groovy that night. So
Yeah. I decide just to but it doesn't mean I'm in a bad mood or I don't like you. It's just ⁓ I I think unfortunately, and I've seen this recently, and and the tell sign is the phone. People be with you physically, but they're not with you mentally. And obviously it's the phone, that's one thing. But before the phone it's just glazing or not paying attention and
Jeff Holman (29:16)
⁓ sure.
Richard Blank (29:33)
Sometimes it's not their fault. We're adults. Who knows what's going on in their lives. And so you and I might never get a chance to see each other. We finally get a chance to have burger and you're just not there. I can't get angry at you, man. You got four kids, you got things going. And so, ⁓ that's my only thing. Even if it's five minutes, I'll I'll take your five minutes compared to an hour of space, you know. I just if you can. Somehow. And
That's the way I look at it. But how about this? I'm gonna pay a compliment to you. Maybe you bring the best out of people. Maybe you said you watched a couple podcasts. Maybe I'm more excited on yours because Jeff's the man and he's asking really good questions and you know, put me in a good frame of mind. So it goes both ways, my friend. And and here's the best part about these podcasts. I've done a bunch, and I've never sold a book.
Most people hate telemarketers, so I'm really just trying to defend it, not sell it. But ⁓ crazy enough, I I feel like I have an an interesting message to share. By training 10,000 people and being in a linguistic environment, as you had mentioned, I've seen things. I've seen patterns. Forget the CEO thing. Anyone's CEO. I was just in the center of as you say, a very fun linguistic environment for close to, you know.
Twenty five years. So ⁓ how much fun. The stars were aligned. It was a luxury trade. I created my own job. It should have never happened. I should have been selling real estate with my dad and brother back in the States. But I I I wanted to see Jeff what I could do. And if my best was forty four push ups, that's it. And and I would live with no regret.
That weight will be lifted. And ⁓ what I did, I sometimes look back and I'm surprised at it. Why? Because of that crossroads. The times when you're almost broke, or your person you believed in you the most says, don't do it. Or your ribs hurt. You know, you got to keep going. there is that thing that's in you that you need to live with yourself.
Jeff Holman (31:53)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (32:02)
And each person understands that. I'm not gonna try to force that thought on others. But I've known that when I've had to make the most deepest decisions that are long term.
It's when you it's when you go there.
Jeff Holman (32:16)
Yeah, that's when you the real character comes out at that point. What what are some of the patterns that you've seen that you you know, as you think back on your career, either as a CEO or, you know, in your journey towards where you are today? What are the what are the important patterns that ⁓ stand out to you?
Richard Blank (32:33)
The first is fear. It's just of the unknown or people putting insecurities in you. But ⁓ I'm not asking you to boast or or to pick up people. But there's nothing wrong with with having a strong back and putting your chest out and your chin up. There's nothing wrong with looking in someone's eyes and remembering names. Are there haters out there? They hate themselves. I'm non-threatening. I just happen to have a certain spring in my step.
And why do I do this? Keeps me going. How else are you going to do forced marches? How are you going to move? So I'm sorry that you find certain weights, or you need to be dragged, or you have no vision. And it's, I'm gonna say it again. A lot of it is from societal, parental, or financial pressures. if anyone can choose their own life. But people are in too deep.
And so most of their decisions hopefully are responsible. But you know what the fear thing is? It's two fears. It's one of the rejection, or it's the fear of actually getting what you want. Are you prepared for it? Yes. And for me, ⁓ I lived a certain life where I I kind of shoot first and ask questions later and certain decisions because if I thought about it too much, I'd punk out. And so you just kinda have to go with with the flow. It's ⁓ Dionysus, you're just living in the moment. It's like a
sort of fiesta party sort of attitude where yeah you you're drinking wine, eating grapes and, you know, flirting. You know, you're just letting loose and shedding skin. And it's it's a beautiful way to live. That's why it's very interesting when you see people on vacation. You really get to see a true side of them when they do, you know, the limbo or they're hanging at the pool and they're telling jokes. And you're like, why aren't you like this back home? It's because I'm stuck.
Well, I never wanted to be in that Japanese railway car. And I never wanted to be one of those faceless suits that are walking down the concrete jungles going to some no-named office building or just Pink Floyd bricking the wall. That that scared the D lights out of me. I'd rather die. And so I I didn't want that gilded cage. I did I didn't want a life handed to me.
Either through private school connections or college fraternity buddy hookups or parents friends introductions or or just my father and brother starting a company and just bring Richie in and giving me accounts. I that sounded wonderful. A dream to many. An easy life. But I I wouldn't have been satisfied.
Jeff Holman (35:23)
Not Richard's life.
Richard Blank (35:26)
It's not even Richard's life, my friend. It's just it's just living with true intentions.
Felt weird like that. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Jeff Holman (35:37)
No, do you do you find that that you the that this fear comes up with your team members? is this something that you you're able to help them like manage? Because this would the the phenomenal thing about what you're talking about, and I see this with you know, I've been working with innovators and founders for a a long time now. And and when I work with inventors specifically, I realize there are kind of four fears that they deal with, right? And it's it's
⁓ that stop them from take them from actually doing the things that they want to be doing. They want to create a new product or invent something and bring it to the world, but then they they they don't because they're they have these fears. One of them ironically is the fear of success like you mentioned. What if what if it actually works? ⁓ but but the I could see that in the line of business where well and I'll just say it this way
I have a few family members who would when you ask them to make a phone call, they're like, I don't want to. I'm like, it's just a phone call. You're like ordering pizza, or you're, you know, you're you're asking what time the store closes, and they're like, I don't want to. So I could see some really those might be more extreme fears, but in the business that you're in, not only are you recognizing that how fear stops people and how it's impacted your life, but you could you get a chance to teach people how to do their job better by overcoming fear. And that probably translates
outside of the job into a more fulfilling life for them. Like there's there's levels to this fear conversation that are much bigger and broader and more impactful than just simply h how were the performance KPIs this week, right?
Richard Blank (37:19)
That's right. First is everyone needs to calm down. Everyone gets so excited. That's number one. Number two, prior to you joining the team, when we're interviewing you, and there's all the bells and whistles and I wanna be supervisor and all your act mates. Yo, Jeff, do me a favor, turn your paper over and give me a coming of age moment. I wanna know when you beat up a bully, saved a kid and I don't know.
How many people did you save out of that house with a fire? Why? Let me see if you can zig and zag. Because if you're sitting in front of Jeff about to close a contract and he's comparing you, go, is he capable of working with you? Do you have any depth? Who are you? And also, when it's a rainy Wednesday and someone just hung up on you, I can call you the bully beater and the kitten saver. I can make a cool nickname for you. I don't know, but I I just want to see.
For a minute, can you remove the curtain and show me who Oz is? Maybe be the kitchen that has clear windows so you can see what's in the kitchen. What are you afraid of? And so if somebody is able to you don't need to disclose your life with me. ⁓ come on, man, give me a moment. Let me see what you're made of. That's number one. So if I can put that fear to bed where you become vulnerable, Jeff, for a minute.
You know that only makes you powerful. You saw the statue of David when you're in Milan. Guy's butt naked. Has no armor, no jewels, nothing. But it's an extremely powerful image of man. And so my point being is you don't need anything to be powerful. It's just really that's the first thing. And second, in regards to people making phone calls, come on, man, you're pushing them in the deep end. It's not fair.
Once people start removing that uncertainty, when to use a name drop, when to use a military alphabet, how to ask tie down questions. If things make sense, sound good, may we move forward. Clarification questions. Remember the positive escalation with Judy, company name spike. Then it becomes fun. Then you avoid the fat. Then it's interesting. Let's talk the gym. man, it hurts when you get in there. Not after you've been working out for while.
Once a runner's high and a gym burn, you want that now. You want that burn. And so when you make these phone calls, when you get really good, you overwhelm the people. You're like a person that can dance the waltz. You are so well polished, so well trained, have every rebuttal. It's just your decision of this sort of tone that you want. Do you want to be New York aggressive? Maybe California cool or something in the middle. You know, it's just your temperature levels. But what a beautiful art of speech.
What a beautiful dance for people. If they learn how to be diplomatic, strategic, and use specific semantics, certain vocabulary that is non-offensive and maintains the tone in a positive way. It's unbelievable how your talk times just gets expanded and your conversion ratios increase.
Jeff Holman (40:34)
That's beautiful. Like I you're making me wonder, I like when people come and work for you, does their confidence increase? Like, do you do you see them become different people as you teach them these tools, give them the the skills to actually go out and do the objectives? I mean, I'm picturing myself walking into like eighth grade wood shop right now, and there's ⁓ a hundred tools out there and somebody's made some really beautiful
Piece of wood that's on display for the last 15 years because it's so nice. And and I walk in there, I'm like, well, I don't know how to use that tool. I don't know how to use that tool. I don't that that one will cut my fingers off. And and there's this intimidation factor. But I, you know, and I haven't been in wood shop ⁓ probably since eighth grade. So I don't go into a wood shop and say, I totally know what I'm doing, and I can make these beautiful pieces of furniture. But but if someone comes and works with you, I get the impression that that
They are learning the skills, they know their way around the the the wood shop, so to speak, and they become confident artisans. Is that is that accurate?
Richard Blank (41:44)
Well you have to show something first. I can't be all hat and no cattle. So when I'm doing certain training sessions, you get me. But this is what you do get, my friend. I'm gonna make you stand up, Jeff. So you're in front of twenty people now. So you're gonna come to the front of the class with me. Now besides practicing pitching, you're practicing public speaking, which is worse than even making a telemarketing call. So we but that did that. Awesome.
Secondly, I'm gonna make you put the script in your left hand and use your right hand as illustrators. Why? So you can pace yourself. I'm gonna teach you to pace yourself and to illustrate. Does it look funny? Absolutely. But look at ⁓ look at Orson Wells in The War of the Worlds or or Basil Rathone when he was Sherlock Holmes with Nigel Bruce. They had to be expressive. It gives 15% oomph. 15% oomph. ⁓
And then they practice their pitching with me where they got a look in my eyes. It's even tougher. And if they have a tough time looking the middle. So what am I doing? I'm triple stacking you in your training. Goofy. What am I doing? You're ripping it. You're doing master's level communication confidence building in your first day. Does it work? Yeah, nine out of ten, one kid quits. Not me, he quits himself. But when people come back, they see my wheelhouse.
I I I gradually introduce levels for them. But the one level that they love most is the thesaurus. We're constantly upgrading their vocabulary, and so we take out the word help, we put in assist guide and lend a hand. They love those. Not excuse me, it's hey, Jeff, for my clarification. Or if they want an SAT word for my edification. Things like that.
Jeff Holman (43:40)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (43:44)
And so they're constantly running and giving me words that they think are juicy, that give butterflies, hmm, that can prolong conversations and maintain a positive tone. And so don't be lazy with your speech. And it's obvious a lot of the times I I have them make specific pauses. Why? Because it's not you saying something. You might go, mm-hmm. mm. That counts too. And so I just want to make sure.
That you're receiving reactions for these checkpoints. And if you do that, it reduces the stress. And you can use what's reduced into your momentum. And that's what gives you this. And so if you have this mindset, like the real players do, making 200 phone calls a day, five or even six days a week is nothing. And the real ones make it about 80 hours a week. That's when you start making six to seven figures. And so
If you can build up that sort of endurance, find the right gig that's ethical and you hone these skills, do not be surprised if you're earning more than doctors and attorneys. That's how the game is played.
Jeff Holman (44:55)
That's fantastic. I I want to get into ⁓ this concept of coming of age, because you you mentioned that a few minutes ago. What's a what are one or two coming of age moments that you've had as as you built this company, if I can put it that way?
Richard Blank (45:03)
Yes.
Let me go super way back. Like a dominoes effect. The first coming age moment is when I failed out of private school. I remember before finals exam in seventh grade, big pile of books. It's Sunday afternoon and I knew I was sunk. And it wasn't funny or cute. And there was nobody to blame but yourself. And so I grew up really fast on that. And it's interesting. Instead of hitting a home run, I failed terribly. And I never wanted to feel that way again.
And I didn't take it with me either. I mean, I know I'm bringing it up today, but you need certain stars to remember. And that was a good one for me, because I was able to get back up and then I went to public school and and things went from there. And then the second coming of age was making an argument to my parents about studying Spanish and not following in family footsteps with Ivy League and finance. I was a language major and I
Jeff Holman (46:10)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (46:12)
I didn't want be put in a box. And I realized this. This was my argument, actually. Our great grandparents came from Eastern Europe at the turn of the 20th. They learned English. Come on, let me do this. And and secondly, I you see I do above and beyond. Outside of the classroom, I'm showing dedicated practice. Anyone that puts above and beyond like that, you have to keep that fire going. I go, that's my argument. So I stood by it and I realized that if I made that commitment myself, I had to be bilingual and to use this skill.
And then the coming of age was at 27, moving abroad, getting past parents' guilt and being selfish and realizing I wanted to live my life. And then the last coming of age was putting my own money down and betting on myself and seeing where it could go. And so mind you, I'm not the largest call center in the world. Those are kings. There's a lot of princes out there.
Could be one of So I'm very, very happy to the extent of what happened in my business and my career. I'm I'm more than humble and more than thankful. So those are my certain coming of age chapters that got me to where I am today and pushed me to do.
Jeff Holman (47:25)
I I love those. I mean, because it it demonstrates that the you know, who you are as a CEO, who we all are as in our in our professional lives is is so wrapped around the the personal, the the the very intimate, you know, historical, familial, ⁓ character that we've built over the years. And so it's that all weaves into how we run a business.
even if we have overcome a lot of those things that we thought were maybe detrimental to us or or just not us, you know, not who we wanted to become. So I I love that. It as you've as you've worked at in the company, building teams and ⁓ you know, managing the finances and marketing for new clients and and and that, is there a moment where you where you reached, you know, that that pivotal moment where you said
I don't know if this is gonna work unless I do something differently. ⁓ this is this has been working or it's going fine, but but if I keep doing what I've been doing, it might not keep working. Have you reached one of those moments before?
Richard Blank (48:37)
In the largest moment, you took away my spark, my magic, which made me different, my synergy. You did work from home. You did virtual. You did COVID. As much as I'm thankful and grateful that I was capable of adjusting my business model, working from home, it
Completely one thousand percent destroyed. The sort of I'm gonna say the word again, magic. Yeah. That was created. No, no, mind you, there's still company culture and people are communicating in departments and slack and all that stuff, but man not even close.
Jeff Holman (49:28)
Why why is that? What w what is it about the way
Richard Blank (49:30)
You know. Seriously, if I'm sitting next to you and my man Jeff is ripping the phone and you look at me and we're doing high fives and we can't wait to talk about it. I feed off of that. That's electromagnetic energy transfers of people. Hanging out at the lunchroom, it reduces attrition, making best friends. a bunch of people fall in love, get married, and have kids. Some kids are nine months. Agents still working through the center. There's a Costa Rican call center babies. And so
But me. They got to see me. Got to wear a suit every day. That was fun. But I would walk the road. I was shadowing. I was there. You you said it earlier. Did you see people have breakthroughs? Did you see them grow? Yes. Yes, I did. I saw them cracking toads, shedding skin, growing a little chin, you know, hair on their chin, really becoming
Jeff Holman (50:17)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (50:30)
Strong, confident adults. And do I expect them to be with me forever? No. But when they're with me, I want them to be better. And if I can pay it forward in any sort of way, not by paying them and giving them a job, can I go above and beyond some way? Maybe the first boss they ever met. Maybe someone that allowed them to sit in a meeting, contribute, and then understand why certain decisions were made. Why to help them with their career? Sitting down and helping them write a composition or business list.
Teaching them how to take copious notes, teaching some people dictation, teaching some people how to write in cursive. Why? Because it looks good when you sign your name. Those little, little things, those goodie bags you can take with you that you always remember. And how about this? This is very interesting. And I don't blame them. I mean, people start strong, and a lot of people don't give it two weeks' notice, they just leave. But when I bump into people years later, they will come up to me and
Jeff Holman (51:11)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (51:30)
Say nice things. They go, listen, you were one of the few bosses that really was interested in my career or I remember when you taught me A B C and one, two, three, and you know, thank you, and you believed in me. And so I guess at the moment you don't hear it. I don't need to hear it, my ego's fine. But ⁓ when people see you and they smile and you see it's genuine and sincere and they remember three nice things about the time they worked with you nine years ago. That's a beautiful compliment, my friend. I I
think then I have fulfilled my mission here and knowing what I had to do. And so ⁓ as you get older and you start looking back, you you see the the bricks that you built and the walls they become very high and it's and it's nice to see what you've done.
Jeff Holman (52:19)
I I really love that. There there is a magic to it. You you use a perfect word for it, the the magic of it. And ⁓
Richard Blank (52:26)
And I got taken
away. I mean I'm bitching about it. Sorry to
Jeff Holman (52:31)
Yeah,
no. Well well what have you done? What what have you been able to do? Not that you can not that you can replicate the magic of in person in a remote world, but w what have you been able to do to adjust to the remote world that that that maybe preserves a little bit of the magic for your team?
Richard Blank (52:52)
Business is the same. I mean, I love them to death. They love the comforts from home. I pay them on time. I tell them they're great. What am I doing? I'm doing this. I'm on podcasts. Why? Because my 10 agents don't want to hear the same talk ten times about moving from Philly and starting a center. They've heard it already. They can come on your podcast and repeat it. So yeah. ⁓ I I sincerely I believe that I have a message. And ⁓ is it important it if it resonates with anybody?
Or where the CEO or somebody finds something out of what we spoke about today, then I think it's fantastic. And I have this energy, I don't want to do with it. And so from time to time I I meet a great person like yourself who's kind enough to put me on your podcast, ask me some fun questions. And as I say, I'm not, please don't call me for telemarketing. You know, you're gonna yell at me. But ⁓ I'm here to share.
That's the only way that I could I could say it because as I mentioned before, it was an interesting journey. And and I just I just don't want those entrepreneurs out there that have dipped their toe and tasted it.
Ten years goes fast. That's all I gotta say and and really you should do it now if you're if you are able.
Jeff Holman (54:14)
It's a beautiful journey. ⁓ I appreciate you sharing all that because there again, way more to unpack than what we've than what we've taken the time to.
There is a lot. There is a lot. And it's very very generous of you to to to share all of that here at the level that you did. ⁓ I think we might be to the time now where I get to revisit that that ⁓ question that I had up front. And and that question was, you know, what's the business lesson? And maybe there's something that we've talked about today about, you know, the the experiences of in-person or the the
connections that that we make or the fear and the confidence. I don't know what that is, but but what is the business lesson that we can ⁓ walk away with that relates back to how you collect the jukeboxes and the the pinball machines and run a business. I feel like there's something there and I'm I'm just curious to see if this is ⁓
successful experiment asking this question or not.
Richard Blank (55:28)
Very
very intelligent question. I don't have ten thousand people. I so I can be very selective. Unfortunately, the campaigns that I offer and what I pay is highly competitive, so I can be selective. why do you do this game room? You start with dessert first.
Why do you why do you have this here? Because I'm in a I'm in one of the highest attrition industries out there. I'm also competing against Amazon HP Intel Oracle. How do you compete? What do you do? Why do I have these games so so I can be real and normal? I mean, it's incredible.
The way people look at a business owner. Or I'll hear someone speak to me in a certain way, and if they don't see me behind a corner, they sound different. And then I walk over there, then all of a sudden they talk differently. I go, Why you talking differently now? I mean, show me where the real person is. And so what I'm trying to say is not in your way, in my own way, I I needed to show a certain side of me.
Jeff Holman (56:37)
Yeah.
Richard Blank (56:48)
And it felt natural, it felt real, it was non threatening, and it's fun. And it's quirky, it's different, it's eclectic, it's ⁓ outside the box, it's whatever the hell you to go. But I knew this. People knew my true passion, they saw the way I was playing those games, and it allowed people to approach me.
'Cause I'm playing a game. Yeah. I can't get angry at someone playing pinball or Pac-Man. And not everybody I I'm not the Pipe Piper, but I was able to convert thirty-five percent of my workforce that feared a boss, cause we're supposed to be firing you, count licking our thumbs and counting hundreds. Yeah. I I shattered that misconception. I knew everybody's name, some nickname.
But 35% then, because I won that portion of the people, went back and spoke for me. We call them portavals, intercambiums. I'm not all in one. I needed individuals that actually were able to approach me, know me, and say he's not so bad. And when that happened, it reduced that, and more people felt comfortable to see at least say good morning or be more receptive. And then there's always 15% that just come and go.
You you can't do anything with those people. And then you you'll have people that are just walking around angry for zero reason and they're blaming me for what happened on their last job, or they're blaming me because I believed in. This is a weird industry, Jeff, because you know it's like a mirror. It's in the pudding. Listen, man, if you're on a phone call for 10 minutes, I'm gonna pull the call. It's you you.
Jeff Holman (58:42)
Listening to Yeah, yeah.
Richard Blank (58:44)
So say what you want. So ⁓ we listen and then you'll look at me and I'll make a face. And then at the end I go, you know, you could have done better. Put in some guilt. And then you go, Yeah, boss, I could have done A, B, C, and D. That's the best teacher. Allowing Jeff to come back and keep working on his paper, it's not the one time shot, champ. It's not an exam. I want you to get better. And if it takes you seven times to get it right, then we got it.
Yeah. You talked about the thousand tools in the tool shed. We're just putting one away at a time. Right. And you're doing it from self-analysis, from this self-study, from your own voice. All I can do is tell you timing, vocabulary. You didn't listen, and you missed a mark. I'm just working the edges of you. And that's the beauty of my rudder to your ship. And that's how, if someone can handle that.
And then bond with me through the medium of this of the games. We got a winning combination. And how about this? We're not gonna talk about your call upstairs. I already listened to it, you already made it. Come on, why don't we go downstairs, play some hair hockey, and we're just gonna talk for a couple minutes. Hey good boss, I know I miss okay, and then you know we're going back and forth, and boss, I'm gonna do this, and then you're all breathing, you're sweating, you're this and that. And you're going upstairs and everyone's seeing you with your swagger. The whole floor sees you.
And then I get a knock on the door at the end of the day, and you go, Hey boss, what did you do to me today? I go, What are you talking about? He goes, I'm on fire. And then guess what? You got that for the rest of your life. Even now you're a supervisor at Amazon and you thank me for it. Thank you. You know what's so funny? They hire all of my people. All of these call centers, if they come through my call center, they get hired. That's the beauty of the compliment of Costa Rica's Fall Center.
Jeff Holman (1:00:37)
I
love it. There's something very genuine about ⁓ about your approach, Richard. I I really I really do appreciate it. Thank you. And it it comes through your, you know, as you're explaining that to me, I can I can see, you know, the image of the boss playing arcades, playing air hockey, playing pinball with the with the team. And that there's a, you know, it's not just 'cause you want to play play games, like that's fun, but you're connecting. You're
Creating experiences, you're teaching, like you're using you're using these secondary moments, I'll call them, to really do the work of leadership that that you might do in a you know one-on-one performance review, but you but but why not do it in a setting where where you can open up more and they can perhaps be more receptive? Like they're they're
There's some magic to that. And I can see why if you're not able to do that in person, th there there's a little bit of magic that's
Richard Blank (1:01:38)
Mm Panks in big. How did he meet the boss and how'd he get promoted? It's a perfect scene for play games with your boss.
Jeff Holman (1:01:47)
Yeah. I love it. Well well, this has been a fantastic conversation, Richard. is there one piece of advice that you'd leave for other CEOs listening to this to let them know, hey, if if if you could do one thing in your business over the next week or two, try this and report back.
Richard Blank (1:02:07)
Of course. Well first I wanna thank you very much for having me as a guest today. Jeff I had the
Jeff Holman (1:02:11)
you're welcome. It's been great.
Richard Blank (1:02:14)
All right, man. Let's call the balls and the strikes, I'll get right there. Do not be hard on yourself, please. At the end of the day, regardless of the outcome, when you put your head on the pillow, rest. And also be able to look at yourself in the mirror. And just realize you're going the distance. If you ever get the chance and you complimented me today, because I was sharing a lot of things, something's intimate, you know.
Let you know what gives me drive. When you really read the biographies of your heroes and those that have accomplished so much in life, it's always Sisyphus, it's always pushing that rock up there. It's it's always that getting through the desert, off that mountain, the high seas, it's it's perseverance, it's drive, it's grit, it's all of those things that we all admire so and and wonder if we have it in us.
Until we get tested. And so, yes, my advice through these brave entrepreneurs is to do it and report back. Remove that weight and report back. And even if it's a first down, I'm so proud of you. Doesn't need to be Deion Sanders touchdowns. Just give me progress.
And motion and physics. And I'll even take it out of snails. As long as you're moving forward. Jeff and I are proud of you. We'll try to push you a little bit and get you moving and scream. Come on, three more reps. Come on, you can do this. But I'm not gonna touch ya. You gotta do it on your own. I'm not gonna carry you. But I'll let you know. And I'll be there during the good times. But if I gotta tell you that one time you're better than that, or come on, body.
Jeff Holman (1:03:59)
That's right.
Richard Blank (1:04:12)
And that's the real friend, the one that that talks to you when you need to hear it. And so take it, receive it, and share it. That's ⁓ the things that have gotten me to be a guest on your podcast today. And that's my
Jeff Holman (1:04:27)
I appreciate that so much. and I hope someday, Richard, we we have a chance to to play some pinball games together. I I will not be very good at it probably, but you know, you can you can show me how it's done. So absolutely. And for our guests that have joined us today on the Breakout CO podcast, thanks for listening in. ⁓ hope you took away something that you can apply in your business over the coming weeks, and we'll see you next time.
