Manufacturing CEOs are no longer deciding whether AI matters. The real decision is how long they can afford to delay operational adaptation while the underlying infrastructure changes around them.
That distinction matters because most manufacturing organizations are not struggling with access to technology. They are struggling with the organizational consequences of adopting it. Decision-making structures move slowly. Operational trust compounds slowly. Leadership teams remain accountable for continuity, production, labor stability, and capital allocation while the technology itself continues advancing.
Torian Richardson, Co-Founder of DBR77 / DBR 7.7 USA, frames the tension directly: “The technology is moving faster than human trust.” The pressure manufacturing CEOs feel is not theoretical futurism. It is the practical reality of trying to modernize operations while maintaining operational stability inside organizations built for predictability.
The episode ultimately reframes AI adoption away from software experimentation and toward operational leadership. The challenge is not implementing everything at once. The challenge is creating enough operational visibility and organizational confidence to begin learning before the speed of change compounds into strategic disadvantage.
One of the most important distinctions in the conversation is Richardson’s refusal to treat AI as an isolated technology discussion.
For many manufacturing organizations, the operational systems themselves are not new. Production planning, inventory management, workflow optimization, maintenance coordination, and throughput analysis have existed for decades. What has changed is the velocity at which organizations can now collect, process, and operationalize information.
That acceleration creates a leadership problem before it creates a tooling problem.
Manufacturers built around stable operational rhythms now face environments where technological capability evolves faster than organizational adaptation. Leadership teams that previously optimized around consistency are now being asked to absorb continuous technological change while preserving execution reliability.
Richardson describes the moment as “superluminal” — not as exaggeration, but as recognition that operational cycles are compressing. The tools themselves are improving rapidly. The ability to synthesize operational data is improving rapidly. The challenge is that organizational trust and decision-making still move at human speed.
That creates the central operational risk discussed throughout the episode: delayed adaptation.
Organizations rarely experience technological disruption all at once. More often, they accumulate small inefficiencies while competitors build recursive advantages through operational visibility and faster decision cycles.
The danger for manufacturing CEOs is not necessarily catastrophic failure. It is gradual strategic erosion.
Richardson repeatedly returns to one operational misconception that slows adoption inside manufacturing organizations: the assumption that transformation must begin as a massive enterprise-wide initiative.
His argument is almost the opposite.
“Transformation is not big and huge all at once.”
That framing changes the operational entry point.
Instead of attempting broad organizational reinvention, DBR77 approaches manufacturers by identifying measurable operational friction points where better visibility creates immediate learning opportunities. The objective is not to automate the entire enterprise. The objective is to establish a repeatable process for operational learning.
That distinction matters because most organizational resistance to AI adoption is not rooted in ideology. It is rooted in operational fear:
Richardson’s approach reduces those risks by narrowing the scope of initial implementation.
The process often begins with measurement.
Inventory movement. Material flow. Process timing. Bottlenecks. Idle time. Operational delays.
Not because those represent the final destination of AI implementation, but because measurable visibility creates operational confidence. Once organizations can observe workflows in real time, they can begin calibrating decisions against actual operational behavior instead of assumptions.
Richardson uses a personal example to explain the principle. After health challenges tied partly to stress while serving as a caregiver for his parents, he began using a continuous glucose monitor. The value was not the existence of the device itself. The value came from receiving continuous real-time feedback that allowed behavioral adjustment.
Manufacturing organizations face a similar problem.
Without operational visibility, leadership teams rely heavily on historical assumptions and fragmented reporting structures. Once operational data becomes measurable in real time, organizations can begin identifying patterns that previously remained hidden.
The learning compounds.
One of the more consequential ideas in the episode is Richardson’s view that digital twins and operational intelligence systems are evolving beyond optimization tools.
Historically, many manufacturers viewed simulation systems as operational support utilities — useful for modeling workflows or improving efficiency, but largely secondary to production itself.
Richardson argues that the role of these systems is changing.
Digital infrastructure is increasingly becoming part of the decision-making architecture itself.
DBR77’s work with digital twins illustrates the shift. Instead of simply modeling existing production environments, simulation systems can now help organizations test operational scenarios before capital deployment occurs.
A manufacturer evaluating facility design, process flow, throughput assumptions, inventory movement, or equipment layout can increasingly model operational consequences in advance using simulated data.
That changes the nature of executive decision-making.
Operational planning becomes less dependent on static forecasting models and more dependent on iterative testing environments where organizations can evaluate multiple operational scenarios before implementation.
For manufacturing CEOs, the strategic implication is significant.
Organizations that build recursive learning systems around operational data will improve faster than organizations relying primarily on historical operational intuition.
That does not eliminate executive judgment. If anything, it increases the importance of judgment because leaders now have access to more information, more possible scenarios, and faster operational feedback loops.
The constraint shifts from information scarcity to organizational interpretation.
Richardson consistently redirects the conversation away from technological hype and back toward organizational behavior.
“The tools are moving faster than the decision-making.”
That observation explains why many AI discussions inside manufacturing organizations stall.
The implementation challenge is rarely isolated to the technology
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
__________
The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
TRANSCRIPT SUMMARY
00:00 — AI is moving faster than human trust
01:59 — The origin story behind DBR77
04:05 — Guangxi and universal human connection
12:53 — Why small manufacturers need digestible transformation
17:34 — Making AI real in the physical world
21:56 — Finding the first measurable bottleneck
24:48 — Governance, leadership, and human-in-the-loop AI
26:30 — DBR77’s milestones and Innovation Exchange
28:36 — Overcoming resistance to AI adoption
35:16 — Digital twins as decision-making tools
39:29 — Speed of change and marketing challenges
50:54 — Listening, caregiving, and the future of DBR77
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Torian Richardson (00:00)
The tools are moving faster than the decision making. The technology was actually moving faster than human trust. This is the opportunity of a lifetime. We're either moving towards Star Trek or Star Wars. Transformation is is big and huge and we start with everything all at once.
Jeff Holman (00:17)
Welcome back, everybody, the Breakout CEO podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman. I'm with Intellectual Strategy as a law firm. And you're wondering why in the world does Jeff as an attorney spend his time talking with CEOs? Well, if you've listened to podcast episodes before, it's because I love hearing the stories that are kind of happening behind closed doors. And I know that they're that CEOs around the world are all experiencing a lot of the same things behind their own closed doors. They don't necessarily get to see and hear.
the stories that their peers are going through. And that can feel kind of lonely or make you think, man, I might be the only one going through this. ⁓ I know that's not the case. And so when I can't bring stories of my clients, the confidential stuff that they share with me out to you, ⁓ I I reach out and I find really interesting people like Torian Richardson. Torian, welcome to the show. Hey
Torian Richardson (01:09)
Jeff, thank you for having me. Super excited to be here. this is an opportunity of a lifetime, not just to be here, but just this moment in time. So thank you.
Jeff Holman (01:16)
Well, I I I love that you're here and I l I love the conversation we've had up to this point prior to you know hitting record on this full episode. But I'm excited for you to bring some stories to the and experience to the audience and and let them know some of your behind the scenes moments. The you know, however you want to share those. Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. Let's let's do it. ⁓ so you're with a company and ⁓ I'm gonna call it R2D Two. No, I know that's not it. It's it's it's some initials.
But I this is the question I wanna get into because you've named your company and I know you've got a story behind it and so I'm gonna let you share the both the name and the s the story and bring us up to speed on on where you're at.
Torian Richardson (01:59)
Yes, absolutely. So our company is DBR77. We are pioneering industrial intelligence as well as digital transformation. And the name ⁓ actually comes from a very simple place. Now I've heard many different things. The most creative has been Death by Robots. ⁓ but that's not actually where the meaning of the name comes from. Actually, our founder, my friend, my brother Piotr, he's based out of Turin, Poland.
Jeff Holman (02:15)
Right.
Torian Richardson (02:25)
The name comes from Ashley and Ashton Martin. He was in the airport. He was looking down at the Ashton Martin. He saw the DB and loved the car and then connected it to his birth year. And so I'm completely butchering that story, but that is at least the factual parts of it that make it ⁓ how we came up with DBR77.
Jeff Holman (02:45)
I love it. So Aston Martins are beautiful cars. I don't own one. I see around. I I I I love Is D B R the actual model? Is that like a I know with Audi's there's or in some other models they'll put the R on the end for, you know, kind of their their racing their racing trim or whatever. ⁓ so maybe an Aston Martin D B R. Is that what that is?
Torian Richardson (03:07)
Well, it's the D V, the D V, not the R.
Jeff Holman (03:09)
So the R is the R is added on by you guys. Okay. Correct.
Torian Richardson (03:13)
Robots part. That's correct. So it's it's a it's a continuum, if you will, the a a compounding of things. The D B, then the R for the robots and then the seventy seven. I actually think the Death by Robots is probably a more interesting story.
Jeff Holman (03:22)
Got it.
But hey. Yeah. Well, I showed my ignorance with Aston Martin model numbering. So, you know that's if that's the only thing I show ignorance in today, then I haven't done my job. So But no, that's interesting. So so before we jump into DBR seventy seven and where what you and your partner are doing, ⁓ like I looked at your background and you've been a lot of places, done a lot of things. ⁓ I wanted to ask you about one in particular and I I maybe
Mixing it up because as I've you've you started a company, is it called Guangxi? Am I saying that correctly? Yes correct enough.
Torian Richardson (04:05)
That's correct. Guangxi. Guangxi in Mandarin means ⁓ relationship or connection.
Jeff Holman (04:12)
Okay, that's what I that's what I thought. I you know, I've been to China a few times, five or six times, and I I've loved it every time and and I've been there for business settings and oftentimes people have said, you know, you need to have Guangxi and you need to establish little relationships to and I and I've seen it firsthand where, you know, sit there in a room and there's a lot of ⁓ relationship building going on, ⁓ more so than business at times it it feels like. But ⁓ so so tell me
I d I know this might may not feed directly into D B R seventy seven, but what's the background behind that? You did that for a while.
Torian Richardson (04:45)
I did, I did. Actually, it's very interesting. So one day, this was some time ago, I had a dream. ⁓ I was digging a deep tunnel, and I woke up from that dream, literally sweating profusely. But at the end of the dream, I woke up, I was in a vault, and when I came out of the vault, I was in China. And so that was kind of the the inspiration, if you will, to actually head to China. at that time I was working across Africa and I wanted a much larger challenge, and I knew.
And I think we're seeing a lot of that now, that China would be extremely ⁓ important and influential. So ⁓ I was accepted into Qinghua University, where I I did a degree in public policy and management, focusing on international economics. And then I started Guangxi Universal really around centering the fact that ⁓ universally, that there's universal human connection that I think is very fitting for the conversation that we will be having on this podcast right now. So that's the impetus of Guangxi.
We built it out centered around students who wanted to study abroad outside of China. We had a chance to build that into a platform that eventually was rolled into another company. So ⁓ a wonderful experience that I had those four and a half, five years that I lived in China.
Jeff Holman (05:58)
China. awesome. I'm I'm really glad I asked you about that. And it and it's interesting when you talk about, you know, building relationships and and making the human that universal human connection. It it takes me back to a time that I think this might have been my first time in China. And and I would went over there, you know, I was employed with a company for a while. They had some operations there and some team members there. And, you know, we had one team member who would I speak snow Mandarin, right? ⁓ she would Crystal would would
arrange transportation for me and I'd go from our office to a manufacturer or whatever. And and I remember one time I I got in a a a taxi that had been arranged for me and we were just driving wherever. I had no idea how long we were going to be in there. I just jumped in the taxi and started going. And at one point I I thought, well, how well how much longer is this going to be? And so I thought, you know, of course me sitting in the back seat and this taxi driver, we would be able to communicate and just, I would be able to figure out
How much longer would we have? You know, is he just needs to like put up his hand for f five minutes or something like that? And so I said something in English and and and he, you know, set some stuff back and all of a sudden it just it like literally hit me like a ton of bricks. And I'm like, I'm like, I have zero comprehension. I bet he has zero comprehension. And so, you know, there was just this language barrier, a complete barrier that that I I thought
for some reason wouldn't be there. And yet, ⁓ despite having experienced that kind of one really, I guess, I don't know, it felt really like profound, maybe in a sense, that I can't actually communicate with him at all, at least not from the backseat of the cab while he's driving it, maybe in other situations. But but there there's that, but yet despite the language differences and whatever barriers exist.
culturally or or otherwise, maybe politically at this point in time, we should say too. You know, there are there were so many connections that I built over the years, ⁓ that I just there's I have a kind of this deep affection for for being in China and working with the Chinese people I've worked with and and it's it's maybe a contrast to that moment where now there's this connection that exists that
is very different from that disconnection that I would experience in that taxi. So
Torian Richardson (08:27)
And are you are we referring to kind of the current maybe geopolitical state of the conversation when it comes to China as opposed to your personal experience?
Jeff Holman (08:35)
No, this is more my personal. Like I I don't I yeah, I like like I think that I think that I became much more connected to the people in the culture. I still don't speak Mandarin. I still probably would have a disjust the contrast between, you know, that one moment where I was like, I thought I'd be able to communicate with this person and and I just absolutely couldn't. There was zero comprehension. ⁓ to the point where after many trips over there, I feel like there's ⁓ some type of
I don't know, unspoken deep connection that I've established. And so that disconnection and that connection from a personal just my own personal experiences, I don't know, that seems to I don't know if that highlights kind of the ability for us to establish universal connections despite the ⁓ obstacles that are out there. ⁓ but I don't that's what came to mind when you started that's why Guangxi, your your company, Guangxi Universal, it
You know, I read that and I'm like, I was reminded of that experience and I thought, I wonder what's behind this for for ⁓ Torian. Just a quick note about our guests. I host the Breakout CEO podcast to share behind the scenes insights from scaling businesses. As an attorney, I see the real challenges leaders face long before success becomes public. But clients' stories have to stay confidential. So we invite guest CEOs to share their own moments of struggle and success.
I'm so grateful to our guests and my team at Intellectual Strategies for making this show possible. Now, let's get back to the show.
Torian Richardson (10:12)
That's it, universal human connection. And you're speaking to it. If we if we think about what really is happening with the language exchange, it's you know we're exchanging agreed upon information that has the same value and meaning. And it's it's difficult to do that if we don't have a baseline. Yeah, you know, understanding the same language is able to we're able to do that. we we see that type of context. ⁓ one, where we're able to be interoperable and navigate in different environments. One of the things that you're speaking to is
developing range, right? Of range of perspective, understanding that there's more than one truth, there's more than one way of doing things that can be right. ⁓ and then also that that common thread of humanity, which is, you know, wanting the ability to prosper and whatever that means, and then having the agency in some way, shape or form to be able to do so. And so yeah, I I think it is it's been a fundamental
I don't wanna say tool because I think that minimizes it for me, but being interoperable and then immersing myself, actually living and working in those environments, have changed who I am and and certainly have reframed how I show up as a leader, how I see ⁓ you know, in inclusion and and and range and things of that nature. So I think it's vitally important to to have, especially going forward.
Jeff Holman (11:27)
Yeah, no, going forward, like and that's why as you're saying all that, I'm thinking, yes, going forward is just is just as important because we're now, you know, ⁓ i it it's kind of it it feels kind of trite to speak about AI as like, this technology and like it's been around for a short time, but it's been everywhere, right? And yet and yet it almost feels like we have so far to go to figure out where we're really headed. Like we're just still kind of stepping
I don't know if we're stepping into the darkness still or we're stepping out of the darkness. I'm not sure which direction it is right now, because it's just so new. And so in a, in a, in maybe a, an analogous way to figuring out what the relationship was that I had when I was visiting China, you know, I feel like I look at all of the companies being built around AI, all of the tools that are facilitating so many new functions and businesses and
growth for business like like there's a a relationship to be built there with the technology in a sense. And absolutely so ⁓ so I'm I'm really interested to hear kind of where you're headed with DBR seventy seven. 'Cause I i it seems to me like that's maybe building on what you did before with the universal human connection. Now you're like, ⁓ same principles apply with ⁓ with this other type of business.
Torian Richardson (12:53)
Absolutely,
absolutely. I I think it's a transferable skill set because I I see everything's from a systems architect standpoint, right? This ecosystem that is working together. And if we look at business and the direction that business is actually headed, the fundamentals are shifting. This is why the feeling that we have right now is so ubiquitous. we may not all be able to describe it and use certain words, but you know, if you're in the powered world, you feel that the velocity has changed.
the word that I like to use is superluminal, right? We're moving at a superluminal speed right now. And I've I've said this before, but if we think about where we are, the the technology that we're speaking to is actually moving faster than human trust. And since technology is moving that fast, what we're trying to do, particularly for small and medium-sized manufacturers, is meet them where they are, number one, and two, make it digestible as to where they are in the transformation process. we have this notion that transformation is
It's big and huge and we start with everything all at once. And that's fundamentally isn't true. There's always one starting point. And depending on where you are, that's where we started. And so we we meet organizations there and kind of work with them. but we also are doing so with the latest and greatest technology utilizing digital twins, simulated data for physical AI and embed embedded AI in manufacturing.
Jeff Holman (14:14)
Awesome,
awesome. And I want to get into into some of the details of that ⁓ because I feel like there's a lot I could learn there and maybe some of our listeners could also learn or or utilize some of the some of the concepts that you're gonna be sharing. but I want to know first, how did what was your journey from you know Guangxi Universal and it the other, you know, stops along the way? How did you end up here with DBR seventy seven and ⁓ and a co founder in, you know, acr across the world in Europe?
Torian Richardson (14:44)
That that's that's a great question. So our journey started actually 10 years ago, this not this month, maybe a few months ago. ⁓ Pyota and I met at the general management program. We're part of GMP 20 at Harvard Business. And at the time, I was the general management general manager with MV Transportation. I was running a $80 plus million dollar PL for the city of New York.
Jeff Holman (14:59)
Okay.
Torian Richardson (15:11)
he was the CEO of a company called MAFLO, which is a tier one auto supply distributor. And we were at inflection points in our career. We wanted to expand. ⁓ obviously Harvard Business School is a great place to do that. And so yeah, as a classmate, we had talked about, you know, how do we move forward. Now, upon leaving, ⁓ I actually transitioned into executive coaching, early stage investing, and then ultimately becoming a global director at NVIDIA. ⁓
Prior to joining DBR77, he actually left his position and started the consulting side of DBR77. And then along the way, we've been, you know, obviously speaking. And then, you know, the inflection moment or the iPhone moment, if you will, for the conversation around AI happened in 2023, 2024. And that's when we really started to say, hey, how do we, how do we think about taking some of these ideas, emerging kind of my
background around working in interoperable environments, the talent piece, ⁓ as well as ecosystems, and then his manufacturing experience and grow things out in the United States. And so that's how we came together 10 years later. Took us a while, but we're happy to be here and we know for a fact that this is the right time and the right moment. So that's what's going to
Jeff Holman (16:31)
And what's the thesis that you're working that under? I mean, you bring your skills to I I love because this is how innovation happens, right? Like I work with a lot of inventors and innovators and and you you always see that there's ⁓ you know, there's this spark that kind of unites two otherwise distinct things that you wouldn't necessarily put together, you know. In this case, historian and pe Peter, Piotr, right? Piotr. Piotr. Yeah. Piotr. Okay.
Yeah, just correct me with my with my pronunciations anytime. But you but you have these two distinct ⁓ experiences, backgrounds, expertise, and then there's just sparking you like pff, put together, now you've got something new that you're bringing to the world, just like, you know, p any patented product out there. This thing existed, this thing existed, and then that spark connects them into something new. what w what is the
And I'm just gonna call it innovation for lack of better. What's the innovation or the theory that you guys are working under ⁓ to bring something new to this field?
Torian Richardson (17:34)
Well, we we look at AI from a physical world standpoint. Ultimately, the the ultimate test is how do we make AI real in the world which we are in right now, right? In the physical world, the world in which human beings operate. Now we're gonna see some of that with augmented reality, virtual reality for sure. But when it comes to production, right, and being able to manufacture and produce one, we know this is a
a a a vital critical part of the United States growth and reinvestment in ourselves. Two, we know that almost 70% of manufacturing in the US happens with small and medium-sized manufacturers. So this is these are manufacturers that are, you know, a few million dollars up to maybe a hundred million dollars in revenue. And what they can budget, the rate of change, how they change looks very different than maybe a large manufacturer with hundreds of million dollars of budget. So that's where we're meeting the market. So that's number one.
Number two, we're we're kind of diffusing that conversation of the big here, here's AI for everyone as a software play, and really scaling it back and meeting organizations to say, before we can move from humanoids to robots, robots to an automated arm, automated arm to automation, from optimization, all the way down to measurement, the first thing that we have to look at is one particular problem where we can start to measure and
receive data in a structured way. And ultimately, this is what our conversation comes down to with our customers. And in being able to do that, that's where the recursive learning happens, not only with us as an organization, but for them because they're getting real-time data. I always use this example when we're working with clients. For me, this became the epiphany from a new a newer invention when my father had a stroke. ⁓ we spoke a little bit about me being a caregiver. Well long story short, you know
My my ⁓ health had declined, a little bit of stress. And a friend of mine told me about a continuous glucose monitor. Now, I didn't need one before, but I looked into it, decided to try one with the help of my doctor, and what it gave me was real-time information on my blood sugar levels, and I was able to see not only what I was eating, but the stress levels that I had actually would raise my blood sugar. And so since I had this real-time data and information, I was able to take that.
and calibrate my behavior for better, more efficient outcomes. This is exactly what we do for our partners in small and medium-sized manufacturing. Starting with that one data point, we can help them start to build out that recursive learning to find ways to automate and become more efficient on their factory floors.
Jeff Holman (20:15)
Love that. You're not talking I mean, there's a vision eventually, right? We're gonna go from zero to a hundred miles an hour, but let's get to one or two miles an hour first. Let's let's kind of find that entry point and and start in the data. I mean, it it seems like when you say it, it seems like such a natural starting point for for this. ⁓ how would this apply? So I'm thinking of, you know, I've got a a a friend, Spencer was on the podcast actually. He does he he's been he got into his father's business.
with ⁓ vacuum cleaners that they were manufacturing and then got got into he explains ⁓ on the show, I don't remember what episode it was, maybe around episode ten, talks about how he got into three D printing to try to solve his own ⁓ supply chain issues ⁓ for that vacuum business and the three D printing has has now become more of a its own business for ⁓ onshoring, you know, small rapid production parts. And it's been cool to see what he's doing.
Or another another manufacturer and that's maybe not the traditional manufacturer, but but maybe the ⁓ a newer type of manufacturer that's coming on board. I I think of another client who was making a lot of plastic parts here at a local, you know, injection molding company, which I I think has become more and more rare for many years, but maybe we'll see more of those come back. But they were making, you know, projects, ⁓ consumer consumer goods ⁓ products.
from that injection molding. Like w if you were to go into one of these types of businesses, what what's the conversation you would be having with them? Where would where would that start? How would you say, Hey, we're here to help you. This is what we do.
Torian Richardson (21:56)
I mean, it sounds very basic, but the first question is, you know, tell tell us about your business. Right? What what is it that you do? ⁓ the the open ended questions, ⁓ what what are some of the things that keep you up at night, which are usually ⁓ consistent challenges, right? ⁓ where would you like to see more efficiency? Where do you perceive or believe that you have a bottleneck in your process? ⁓ typically ⁓ we
at DBR77 USA, we like to start at the beginning of the process because, you know, that that makes the most sense, even though there could be an I an identified bottleneck. Starting at the beginning gives us an opportunity to maybe look for other bottlenecks or things that may not have been identified. And then start very simply. What is the problem that we're trying to solve? And scale that back into, you know, the first principles around what is actually true.
the majority of the time and start building from there. Lots of times we'll start with ⁓ IoT, that's what we call it, the the internet around measurement of ⁓ where materials actually come in or inventory, right? These seem to be areas in which we start off with. And from there, you start to see many things that are become not only operational where ⁓ items are, but the thought process as to why they go there, how long they sit there.
These are the types of measured insights that start to compound and build, ⁓ which actually gives an organization a lot more information and gives them an opportunity to address even more problems that compound or really dig into that opportunity for growth as well. So it it really depends on the client, but it's really an opportunity for a measured transformation where they are.
Jeff Holman (23:41)
Yeah. That mak and that makes sense. And I can I can totally see you go into a business and they're like, Well, we know our numbers on what we spend for inventory. Why don't we start the start with the known known, right? Instead of instead of the unknown unknown or the the known unknown that we don't know what to do with yet.
Torian Richardson (23:57)
Well, I I was gonna say I think the biggest part of that too is is really the the people and the change management piece of it because this is not only when we think about the technology piece, yes, those are the tools, but it's the mindset and the reframing of the mindset and the leadership ⁓ that that's actually helping to not only implement these tools, but integrate within the culture of the organization what this actually means to the organization as well. So it's a two-pronged approach. The tools
as well as the the people who are manage the tools and that that goes back to that whole human in the loop and why we we believe that being ⁓ AI first and agentic is very important, but also having that governance piece ⁓ with the human in the loop is also vitally important.
Jeff Holman (24:40)
Yeah. Does that start with the CEO or where does where does human in the loop start with on the on the ⁓ manufacturer's side of things?
Torian Richardson (24:48)
But well for for me and my background and and just from a board governance standpoint, I I do believe it starts from a governance and where resources are actually ⁓ distributed standpoint. Because where our where our attention and our energy goes is typically what grows. That's that's any org, whether it be an organism or an organization. So so I I think that in understanding where we are, which is why that agency piece is important from a leadership standpoint, while we framing detaching.
From maybe legacy businesses, right? And of course, we can use all the business examples from, I guess from my generation, it would be an organization like a Sears or a Blockbuster. it could be where Netflix is now as opposed to where Blockbuster could have been or even Kodak with the invention of digital photography. It it is really detaching from what has gotten us here and determining whether that fits the environment that we're in now to take us where we want to be. And really understanding.
where we are right now when it comes to digital transformation, understanding the hardware, software ecosystem stack of the business of the future is vital to not only surviving, but thriving in the business environment from 2026 and beyond.
Jeff Holman (26:04)
Yeah. Yeah. I wanna I wanna shift a little bit if we can to to your own business ⁓ and what the growth has been like, what you're seeing, what you're dealing with in in building this business. Because I know, you know, it's one thing to say, hey, we can help these guys with their business and improve it, and that's kind of the thing we sell, but but when you're when you think about your own business, what have been the milestones that you guys have have experienced and and are looking forward to?
Torian Richardson (26:30)
Well, I think the biggest milestone is, you know, ultimately from a consulting standpoint, having a 10-year background. I mentioned before that Pyota started ⁓ DB seven seven ⁓ about ten years ago. And so that's really helped us to build out ⁓ not only a body of knowledge, but actually a product as well. we're we're utilizing what we call Vector LLM, where we have our own ⁓ manufacturing trained large language model that organizations can use for insights.
so that's helped and tremendously. And then making the transition to really move into a global footprint. So for me in the United States, that really started last year. We had our first big event, Innovation Exchange, during Manufacturing Week in Charlotte. And we had over 60 attendees. But what made it different, intentionally different, was we wanted to not only bring together our potential customers, obviously the small and medium-sized manufacturers, but also with economic development, ⁓
workforce development, research at the university where our office is at University of North Carolina, Charlotte, all in one room to really bring the conversation together as that architectured ecosystem that we talked about before. And it was great because we had great conversations and not only conversations, two new areas of research study with the university, as well as different partnerships in economic development from a public policy standpoint.
And from a sales standpoint with some of our pilots. So ⁓ it's good to see our our our values and our ethos as Pathfinders, that's what we call ourselves inside of DBR77, ⁓ really expand into our areas of partnership. So that that that was a really big moment for us in being able to do that. And then right now we're we're in a capital raise state, so we're we're looking to raise capital right now to expand that growth.
Jeff Holman (28:24)
nice. Nice. What w what kind of obstacles are you guys running into as you're building? it sounds like you're seeing some success and that's fantastic. Where are you where are you seeing ⁓ that you have to put a little extra work in?
Torian Richardson (28:36)
Yeah, that that's that's the question, right? That's a great question. I think fundamentally is just really understanding that change requires change. And so when you're working in a in high production, it's measured, it's measured on a daily basis, weekly basis, right? ⁓ that stepping back and detaching proactively sometimes can be a challenge. So it's it's part of human nature, right? Our brains are structured from a neuro ⁓ transmitter standpoint to look for patterns of consistency. Once we find things that
work, maybe not be optimal with work, we want to keep them. So it's really what is that catalyst? How do you how do you spark the catalyst for ⁓ exploration of change to optimization has been the challenge. And doing so in a virtual environment, right? Where we're talking small and medium-sized manufacturers who may have a very different presence on social media, if none at all. ⁓
Well, from a workforce standpoint, we're talking to employers who have had employees for decades. In some situations, are family friends, if not godparents to their children, right? So these people and social economic dynamics we take into account, but it is it is something that becomes a bottleneck, if you will, for us in finding ways to ⁓ the decision makers. And and then I think the biggest part of that conversation is really helping them to reframe this as an opportunity.
as opposed to it being something that is happening to them in their organization. This is the opportunity of a lifetime. Now the catalyst may be there and it may be moving faster than we've seen before, but this is the opportunity to to grow and to really expand your business. And so we're seeing a lot of traction, ⁓ but there also still is a lot of ⁓ resistance just to the overall situation, not necessarily us as an organization.
Jeff Holman (30:23)
doesn't sound at all like an AI problem ⁓ in and of itself, right? This is a people problem, a re a back to relationship, building the relationships of trust and and establishing, you know, value that that you can communicate to somebody who's open minded to it. In fact, you could have just been describing the entire legal industry right now. You know, convincing attorneys that they that now is the time to adopt AI. Everybody says they're doing it. And some people legitimately are, but a lot of people are are
I th I think paying the ⁓ paying the subscription fees for the services, but are not necessarily implementing or taking advantage of the of the tools they're paying for. So it it's you know, it's tough to change the mindset of people, ⁓ from what has been and what has worked, as you said, you know, worked well enough.
Torian Richardson (31:14)
Absolutely. And if and if we think about how dynamic the world is and how the universal principle of the only constant is change, this this is a bit of a conundrum for us, and this is why the speed of change or the superluminalness of the moment is is so impactful to us as as human beings. and and at the same time, understanding that that relationship piece is changing as well, because we have a relationship in the analog world.
And then also in the digital world that I think is leaders, legacy leaders who have established themselves ⁓ prior to this moment really have to step back. And I would even say candidly, it it becomes a bit of a a pushback to our identity because the things that have gotten us here as leaders may not necessarily be the decisions, the frameworks, the ecosystems that help us grow in the future. And if we look at the companies that have grown, whether it be public or private.
particularly post-COVID, we see that those are not the players even of the early two thousands that have been dominant. So this is a really good opportunity for us to reframe as leaders and show up as a little bit different and a little bit more courageously vulnerable, I think, as well.
Jeff Holman (32:24)
How does that play out when you you know, ⁓ I I'm picturing you you're headed to somebody's, you know, business and they're doing well enough and they they are ingrained in their, you know, I don't want to call them ruts, but their pathways and and you say, Hey, you got an an opportunity to grow and build and you know improve and they say, Yeah, I don't know. Like it's gonna cost money, investment. ⁓ because it at this point you're really having ⁓
a change manag management discussion at the CEO level or with somebody who needs to take the message back to the CEO and probably ⁓ you know be persuasive at that level? Like w what is it that you're able to do or what have you seen that's successful to to really put this in perspective? Is there a trick here, or not a trick, but is there a is there a way that you're able to kind of get that message through with people?
Or do you find that it's just when people are ready, they're ready and and you're just looking for the people who are ready?
Torian Richardson (33:27)
Yeah, I I I think it really is meeting an organization or or a person where they are. The the challenge is having the context to understand where they may that may be. Right. So oftentimes you'll you'll hear about one particular problem. If you ask a few more open-ended questions and just really gain a better understanding, there's usually something underneath that that's a little bit more powerful that's driving where they are. ⁓ and so
Listening, I mean listening is extremely important. What what we've done from a product standpoint is really take a decade of listening when it comes to manufacturing and put that into our product, into our LLM, and then created a a a digital consulting piece around ⁓ consultify is the name for organizations to be able to go in, answer a few basic non-proprietary questions, but really get ⁓ amazing feedback that can be tested.
If not applied, in the factory floor on the direction in which they can go. And so this is the way in which I think connection, the way in which I think relationship and even, you know, consulting, which is a part of that whole conversation, is moving where you'll get a lot more real time information and then you'll have more of a premium human experience, if you so choose, to help implement that, with a lot of the task in between being done by agentic work.
And agents that we have working on our behalf. So this is this is an amazing opportunity to be a part of a fundamental shift when it comes to the the future of ⁓ our economy.
Jeff Holman (34:59)
Yeah. ⁓ having been at ⁓ Harbor Business School and their program there, ⁓ I'm sure you're I'm sure there is an inclination to say, Hey, we've got some case studies we've developed. Like like let me show you what actually happens when you go through this. Do you have do you have a case study that you could share with us?
Torian Richardson (35:16)
we do, we do. ⁓ but not necessarily I can't get into specific names just because of of of where we are with the middle of the process. But you know, one of the things, the areas that we work in is digital twins when it comes to ⁓ embodied and physical AI and what that actually could be used for. So traditionally and and continuously, digital twins are being used to optimize current environments. but more and more what we're seeing is the ability and the flexibility as dexterity.
and ⁓ models start to increase is being able to utilize a digital twin as a decision-making tool. And so we have a a specific organization that we're working with that wouldn't traditionally utilize a tool like this, that is utilizing it for potential clients of large manufacturing facilities. So instead of them saying this is what is, they're able to go into potential buyers and say, here are three different scenarios. Maybe you want to roll out ⁓
styrofoam production, or maybe you want to roll out a data center, or maybe you want to roll out ⁓ making a a digital ⁓ a digital hardware product through 3D printing. We can lay out three different scenarios utilizing simulated data actually work through a workflow plus process and start to calculate the best way to lay out the floor.
⁓ MES, OEE, ways in which you can predict for bottlenecks and a lot of things that happen in the physical world happen in that world at a minimal cost. So it becomes a decision tool. So that's a really good example of taking something, utilizing it in a different industry, and then getting a different outcome that that we believe will actually be a potential pillar and a business unit for us.
Jeff Holman (37:08)
Where you've implemented that. I mean, from the decision because there's the decision standpoint, right? Where you say, hey, let's let's help you in a sense visualize this decision better. ⁓ what's been the result of those conversations? And then has anybody taken you up on it and said and said, Hey, we're gonna move forward? And have you seen results from somebody actually after the decision, you know, implementing a version of
of what was projected.
Torian Richardson (37:39)
Yes. And so and so it's more than visual. P part of it is the visual, but it's actually the movement, the dynamic movement on the floor and the calculations through simulated data that actually gives it its most firepower because that's where you can operationalize what you're seeing and start to run through different scenarios of optimization.
Jeff Holman (37:59)
I I probably I probably narrowed it when I said visualize like it's a like it's a a flow chart or a graph. Not necessarily what I meant, but I can see I can see what you're saying. So yeah, you you you've got a much more comprehensive thing than a than than a you know a a f floor floor plan layout or something, I'm I'm certain of it.
Torian Richardson (38:16)
Yes, yes. It it has the ability to not only ⁓ collect data regardless of where an organization may be, but read data that maybe the organization wasn't pulling from, as well as open ended APIs for, you know, SAP, where you plug into one, but it essentially becomes ⁓ the brain, if you will, for your production floor where you have all your plugins in one place. And so that comprehensiveness actually helps to move things forward, whether it be iris, which is the product that I was speaking to.
That has all the plugins or the decision-making tool within our digital twin that helps get to that operational point. Being able to meet organizations anywhere along that timeline, that has been where we've seen the real bridge between the conversation of software AI and physical AI, where these things have to be implemented in the physical world.
Jeff Holman (39:08)
Very interesting. what what obstacles have you guys run into in addition to just, you know, that getting finding the right people who are ready to adapt and ⁓ and adopt this in their business? Like for you guys running your business, what what have you seen that you've that you've run into that other CEOs might be experiencing in their businesses?
Torian Richardson (39:29)
Well, the the first thing is the speed of change. This is for everyone, right? So, ⁓ if we're thinking about the the model for business of the future, understanding the hardware, software, and ecosystem stack, or that ecosystem and all together, the hardware is important in how we build. So of course we have hardware products in which we can utilize with our with our clients, but the software that is what is evolving for everyone. And so since we
Have language models that our language model is built on top of, we have to make sure that we're keeping up with the speed of change. That bleeds not only with our organization, but with organizations that we work with because the organizational structure, how decisions are made, all of these become impacted when the speed of change speeds up. And so what we're finding is a lot of organizations are looking at side committees, looking at different ways in which they test this going forward.
Essentially the the premise of it is the speed of change. So we we struggle with making sure that we are ahead of that speed of change and creating ⁓ a future where our clients and those that who could potentially be our clients see a version of themselves where this is an abundance opportunity as opposed to it being an opportunity that's happening to the organization. the second one would be marketing. ⁓ you know, marketing has traditionally been
one particular way. And so now we're getting a lot more personalized marketing. So, you know, personalizing marketing to a plant manager ⁓ looks very different than it does in the retail market, right? So what's what does that messaging look like? what are the ⁓ the archetypes, if you will, that we want to make sure that we're delivering the right operational message to. So these are all opportunities that we have we've challenges that have become opportunities for us to grow as an organization. And
Because we are pathfinders and we're dynamic, we we we feel that we've been stepping up to that challenge every time.
Jeff Holman (41:30)
What w what's a way that you've addressed the marketing side of it? Because I I I'll be honest, when I when I hear the the first part of it, the the speed of change, I think to myself, man, Tori and Piotr, you guys probably if it's a struggle for you, I d I think you guys are, we'll just say you're at the forefront of change, right? 'Cause you're you're dealing with the technology. You're probably able to adapt to the speed of change maybe better than some of the other people who are
call them, you know, traditional manufacturing executives who haven't been, while they're technically ⁓ experts in their manufacturing, they may not be dealing with, you know, the forefront technologies the same way you guys are. You guys might be have a have a leg up on people in that in that sense, which would just to to reverse that means what what might be a struggle for you might be an absolute roadblock for somebody else, or at least feel that way, right?
⁓ so I'm not sure how to tackle that ⁓ that question. But on the marketing side, what is it that you've when you run into this, what are you and Peter what are your what's your team doing to try to ⁓ overcome this? Where have you t where have you turned? And maybe again it's maybe there's an AI answer to this where you turn and you're like, well, we built this and and it solved our problem. I don't know. But how have you addressed that?
Torian Richardson (42:52)
Well, there is a tactical tool, right? That's automation, right? But before automation, it it's the same as with our clients. How do we collect data that helps substantiate and get evidence so that we make decisions that are based on that type of information? And what we learned was that we really had to do a better job of the of the customer experience and listening and understanding the particular problems of the particular or not problems, let me rephrase that. Opportunities for growth, actually.
for the ⁓ those in the decision making process and understanding that there were different players and people in different positions that influence that. So if you're the CEO, if you're the owner, that might be different as opposed to if you're the plant manager, as opposed to if you're the inventory manager. So what are the the overarching challenges that that archetype may have? And then how do we make sure that we're being very clear and showing that in engaging with us
starts to bring not only insights, but some immediate ROI that starts to compound over time. And I think that's the biggest thing that we look at is the compounding over time. ⁓ because the conversation is huge. And it seems like, well, if we just do this, then the change will be huge. But we know historically that that's not necessarily how things work. There's usually that hockey curve and it starts with some level of experimentation, ⁓ and then trials and then, you know,
expanding and growing things out. And so we we meet our our customers or potential customers there. And that has worked very well. And doing so digitally with ⁓ the personas and those who are actually the archetype that's aligned to certain challenges has actually helped us as well. So it's helped us be the right people.
Jeff Holman (44:37)
Yeah, that makes sense. As you're explaining that, I I'm I'm going into engineering mode. I have a you know, I did my undergrad engine engineering. I did not do engineering for very long before going into law school. So I but I have the I have a this slice of me that's engineering based systems thinking. And I as you're saying that, I'm thinking, this sounds like the classic problem of, you know, you you recognize how complex the system really can be, especially now that you have
the ability, maybe the expectation to take your marketing to everybody on an individual basis, that doesn't necessarily simplify the problem for you. It's not like, now now we only have to market to this one person and they've all got the same now you know that they there are all these archetypes. There are all these different people in the buying process. There are all these different people who are, you know, have influence on the d on the purchasing decisions. And and it it now in some respects feels like a much, much more complex problem.
than a s than a simple problem. Even though you're moving toward the solution, you're you're having to you're having to discover the complexity before you can find the the simplicity in it, if if that makes sense.
Torian Richardson (45:47)
Absolutely, it makes sense. And this is where having structured data helps and this is where the tools can help because synthesizing a lot of that information once it's being collected can help make decisions and can help make decisions that are data informed and really give insights into areas that likely we have never even seen or even considered. Right. So this is the abundance part of where we are. Think about how that looks on a factory floor.
For maybe a brake manufacturer who's been doing the process the same way since 1962, right? That has immediate impact on financial returns, operational returns, and ultimately your people, right? And their fulfillment in the work that they're actually doing. And so that's the speed of urgency that we have from a people standpoint. The tools are moving faster than the decision making. And so even with that, it's backing up some of that conversation and saying,
We understand where things are being marketed. Let's start where you are so you can start to make progress.
Jeff Holman (46:47)
That makes sense. And I'm and I'm thinking back to what we talked about before we recorded before I started recording this full episode. ⁓ because this is a I I I think that you I'm gonna guess, you can correct me if I'm wrong. This is something you really enjoy. We talked earlier about ⁓ where where you've gained confidence. And you mentioned, you know, from having gone kind of into the unknown many times, ⁓ you're you've gained confidence to go into the unknown.
And you're again, you're building on the forefront, you're dealing with like this this is an not necessarily a problem. In fact, I think you corrected yourself. I don't remember what the context was, but you said problem, and then you're like, it's not really a problem, it's an opportunity. Like like this as some people might see this as a problem, like now I've got a I've gotta be more granular, I've gotta be more specific, I've gotta deal with more complexity. And I'll bet you look at this and you're like, Well, yeah, it's it's a different issue and there's but there's more data.
Think of all the good things we can do with this and how much better we can make the outcomes because of the data that we have that's so much more ⁓ whether it's complex or more thorough or whatever you want to call it. Do you see it? Is it is this does this feel like a like a fun challenge or opportunity to you more than more than an overwhelming problem? Is that is that your viewpoint?
Torian Richardson (48:07)
When I say this is the opportunity of a lifetime, I know it for a fact. I believe it. ⁓ obviously I saw many glimpses of it from my previous employer, you know, being in NVIDIA at a global level. And yes, yeah, this is fun. I mean, this, you know, I I there's only there's only two directions that we're moving. We're either moving towards Star Trek, where we expand and there's abundance, or Star Wars, right? And the way I see it, and this is my grandmother and my my family kind of coming in.
You you have a choice, you have agency in where you put your time, effort, and energy. And I want to put it on the side of this is an opportunity for us to grow. Absolutely. Especially understanding that the only constant is change. As a leader, this is where we should be challenging all those in our span of care to push back and bring those ideas and which they can implement and all those skunk works and the labs and the and the funding that that used to come up and say we don't have time for that.
Now is the time to call to action to step up for your leaders and your organization to experiment. So, yes, super excited. I do think that it's the opportunity of a lifetime. And it's an it's also, I don't want to say helping to level even the playing field, because I don't think anything is ever equal ubiquitously, always. But I do think that it is shifting certain pillars where there's gonna be opportunities that don't even exist right now.
⁓ that will accelerate from a wealth building opportunities as well as building ⁓ other businesses and technology around this. So, from a manufacturing standpoint, yes, we we are asking and providing tools for decision makers who are ultimately responsible for the outcomes to reframe and reshape how they're looking at these opportunities. And and and it's working, especially when you're able to ⁓ show results and and and solve problems and pre pain points for those.
That you that you work with.
Jeff Holman (50:06)
Yeah. And my last question, because I wanna tie this back to something else you talked about. You talk about being a care a caregiver. Is is there a part of this where you see yourself as as helping other companies to achieve I mean, it's the opportunity of a lifetime, like you already already described. But for those people who don't have the skill set or the tools or don't know where to start, is is there a kind of an aspect of not to minimize the word in any way, but is there an aspect of caregiving where you're like,
I'm actually bringing something. I'm bringing some some tools and resources and opportunities to people who maybe don't know how to reach those themselves. Is there is there an analogy there between caregiving for humans and care in in a personal capacity and caregiving for humans in a business capacity?
Torian Richardson (50:54)
For sure. To me, I see it as an exchange of value. It's a it's just a different exchange of value, but it's an exchange of value. I do think that where we are, that because of the global context that we have, obviously because of some of the work that I've done as well as Piotr and other leaders within DBR77, that we're able to bring that context there. But then also understanding that 70% of the market in the United States, roughly, small and medium sized enterprises.
Have a very different context for which they operate and implement new anything. And so that part is very important. The second part that I think relates to being a caregiver is just really, and we talked a little bit about this, is listening to understand as opposed to listening to be right. This sounds very simple, doesn't sound highly technical, but I'm telling you, it is, it is golden when you're engaging and even building products.
we built our consultify product to do just that to really be more of a repository of information and help synthesize that information as opposed to giving answers as to what should be right immediately, without having a greater context for moving forward. So ⁓ that's been in the ethos of everything that we do, whether it be in the analog world as well as the digital world. And and I employ any CEO as you're building, ⁓ or any board as you're building and allocating resources. ⁓
to to listen that much more acute, especially these days. ⁓ and do so quickly because things are moving faster than ever.
Jeff Holman (52:25)
I love it. Well so so where are we gonna see you and Piotr in in five years from now? What's what's that gonna look like when you look ahead? Maybe five years is too y too is too long. Pick pick your time frame.
Torian Richardson (52:36)
no, no, we we we we have a one year, we have a three year, five years, ⁓ I say five years, we'll be we'll be marching into what is that, 2032, 31, 20. Our company will certainly be valued at anywhere from five to ten billion dollars. ⁓ we will be a part of the digital transformation renaissance, if you will, of the southeast United States here, at least from a DBR seven seven USA standpoint.
Jeff Holman (52:47)
Yeah.
Torian Richardson (53:03)
Yeah. globally we have a footprint in Saudi Arabia, Japan, as well as Germany and Poland. So ⁓ we have a lot of global context. And so I think that's one of the things that is helping to infuse our product development as well as the direction that we go with our clients and really being part of our our synthesis, if you will, with human agency and our march toward ⁓ not to sound too futuristic, but humanoids. I mean that's that's you know, the tech and where we are kind of merging.
ever so slowly. And so doing so with the human in the loop and understanding governance, privacy, ⁓ and what that means for our identity, putting all that together is going to be really important. So we we we hope to be comprehensive in how we show up, but also be ⁓ profitable and successful and fulfilled along the way. For sure.
Jeff Holman (53:52)
For sure. Well I love it and I love I love being ⁓ you know, being able to be with you at this at this beginning part of this journey 'cause that is that is quite the journey that you've outlined there. And I'm I'm excited to watch it grow and and see where this takes you guys. So thank you.
Torian Richardson (54:07)
you
we appreciate the time we appreciate everyone listening. this is an opportunity of a lifetime and so we invite you along.
Jeff Holman (54:14)
Yeah, thanks so much, Tori. It's been great. And to to those of our our listeners out there who've made it to the end of this episode, thanks again for joining us on the Breakout CEO. Be sure to follow or subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. And if you enjoy the show, a rating or a review goes a long way. Our mission is to promote the stories of breakout CEOs in scaling SaaS, e-commerce, and tech companies to equip peer CEOs with valuable perspectives.
Thanks again for joining us on this episode of the Breakout CEO. I'm Jeff Holman, and I'll see you next time.
