Many CEOs assume a slowdown in growth requires more effort: more marketing, more hiring, more tools, more initiatives.
The instinct is understandable. A company that reached its current stage through persistence and experimentation naturally assumes the next stage will require the same response.
Jon Bassford sees a different pattern.
In his advisory work with growing companies, stalled growth usually reflects something internal that the leadership team hasn’t fully examined yet. Instead of diagnosing that friction, leaders often respond by pushing harder.
As Bassford puts it:
“The diagnosis piece is what a lot of founders and CEOs miss.”
When that happens, the organization becomes heavier without becoming stronger. More activity is added to a system that already struggles to move decisions and information effectively.
By the time a company reaches several million in revenue or begins expanding beyond the founder’s immediate control, complexity increases quickly.
The CEO sees symptoms:
Those signals create pressure to act quickly. The most visible response is to add resources.
Bassford sees this repeatedly.
“They take what they already do and they throw more at it.”
More marketing spend. More software. More people.
None of those actions address the underlying question: what inside the organization is preventing execution from working as expected?
Without diagnosis, the additional resources simply amplify existing weaknesses.
Bassford frames scaling challenges through three interconnected systems inside the organization:
Most CEOs examine these areas independently, if they examine them at all. Bassford argues they cannot be separated in practice.
Leadership mindset determines how decisions are made and how control is distributed.
Team culture determines whether employees feel able to raise issues, challenge assumptions, and surface problems before they grow.
Operational processes determine how work actually flows through the company.
Weakness in one area inevitably affects the others.
A leader who remains deeply involved in every operational detail sends a signal to the organization about decision authority. That signal shapes how the team behaves. The resulting culture then determines whether processes function as designed.
The result is a reinforcing loop.
Many operational problems turn out to be leadership bottlenecks in disguise.
A common signal Bassford sees in scaling companies is that decisions continue to flow through the founder long after the organization has grown beyond that model.
In the early stages of a business, this dynamic is normal. The founder holds the knowledge, relationships, and judgment necessary to move the company forward.
But at scale, the same behavior slows the organization.
“If we're gonna continue to grow, scale, and innovate, the founder and CEO cannot be the only one.”
When every decision requires the CEO’s input, two consequences emerge.
First, decision speed slows dramatically as the organization grows.
Second, teams gradually stop taking initiative because they learn that the final answer always comes from the top.
Leaders often interpret this as a talent problem or an operational issue. Bassford usually sees something else: a leadership structure that prevents the system from functioning independently.
Even when leaders want their teams to contribute more ideas, organizational dynamics often discourage it.
One example Bassford frequently encounters involves how leaders frame discussions.
A manager enters a meeting, describes a problem, and immediately proposes their preferred solution. Only after presenting the solution do they ask the team for feedback.
The sequence matters.
Once leadership expresses a clear opinion, few employees will contradict it openly. The discussion becomes a search for confirmation rather than insight.
Bassford suggests a simple change: ask the team for their perspective first.
The people closest to the work often see problems long before leadership does. But if the environment discourages speaking up, that information never reaches the decision-maker.
Over time, leaders become convinced they must personally identify every issue.
The system quietly trains them to believe it.
Another pattern Bassford highlights appears in how leaders approach difficult decisions.
Many CEOs describe periods of prolonged analysis before acting. The explanation usually centers on complexity or uncertainty.
Bassford interprets the pattern differently.
“Nine times out of ten, a decision maker is not making the decision because of fear… the over analysis is a symptom of fear.”
The fear may take several forms: fear of making the wrong call, fear of disrupting a working system, or fear of discovering deeper problems inside the organization.
Instead of confronting that uncertainty directly, leaders gather more information.
From the outside, the behavior appears analytical. In practice, it postpones the moment when a commitment must be made.
The organization continues operating within the same constraints while the underlying issue remains unresolved.
Bassford recommends starting with a simple exercise that exposes how work actually flows through the organization.
Choose a process that feels inefficient or frustrating.
Bassford describes the signal clearly:
“That place where your gut is telling you something is off.”
Then bring together everyone involved in that process and map it step by step.
Who touches the work?
Where does information move?
Where do decisions pause?
Leaders are often surprised by what emerges.
The team performing the work usually understands the friction points clearly. The problem is that no one has asked them to describe the system openly.
Once the process is mapped, the organization can evaluate what is actually happening rather than what leadership assumes is happening.
The exercise often reveals unnecessary steps, unclear decision authority, or points where the CEO remains embedded in routine operations.
As organizations grow, the CEO’s role changes from solving problems directly to designing the environment in which problems are solved.
Bassford describes leadership through a different metaphor.
“Being a leader should be looked at much more as being a conductor of orchestra.”
The conductor does not play every instrument. The role is to establish rhythm, alignment, and coordination so that the entire group can perform effectively.
Scaling companies require the same shift.
Instead of solving every operational issue personally, the CEO must shape the conditions that allow the organization to diagnose and resolve issues internally.
That includes:
When these elements align, decisions move faster and the organization adapts more effectively.
When CEOs begin diagnosing internal systems before adding resources, the conversation around growth changes.
Instead of asking how to push harder, leadership begins asking where the system itself is creating friction.
Teams become more comfortable identifying problems early because the organization treats diagnosis as normal rather than as criticism.
Processes improve because they reflect how work actually happens.
And perhaps most importantly, the CEO regains time to focus on the strategic direction of the company rather than its daily operations.
Scaling stops being a question of effort and becomes a question of system design.
For CEOs facing stalled growth, Bassford’s perspective reframes the decision entirely.
Before adding resources, diagnose the organization itself.
The answer is usually already inside the business.
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Jon Bassford is the Founder and CEO of Lateral Solutions. He works with startups, associations, and small-to-mid-size companies on leadership mindset, organizational culture, and operational systems. His work focuses on diagnosing the internal bottlenecks that prevent companies from scaling effectively.
Jon's LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/jonbassford
Lateral Solutions: https://think-lateral.com/
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
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The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
Transcript Summary
Full Transcript (AI generated and might include errors)
Jeff Holman, Host (00:01.474)
Welcome back to the breakout CEO podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman. And I'm here today with Jon Bassford. It's great to have you on the show. Yeah, of course. I was, I was talking to you just briefly before the show and we made the connection that we're both JD MBAs. That's, that's a fun, fun little package to have.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (00:08.462)
Stay happy, Jeff.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (00:21.75)
Yeah, yeah, I'm a little different. I've never practiced and fell into a business operations side of the house and then ended up getting my MBA. But there's no doubt I still use my law degree on a daily basis.
Jeff Holman, Host (00:33.89)
Yeah, no, that's, mean, some attorneys would say, well, you're one of the lucky ones who escaped the systems, right? So good for you though. But I imagine we both got our MBAs to learn more about how to speak business language. I always tell people I got my MBA. You know, I wanted to learn about all the other stuff people were doing besides just getting patents at the time that that's what I was doing. And, really came away with the vocabulary, which sounds simple, but if you don't know the vocabulary of business, you're just, you're not even.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (00:39.534)
100%.
Jeff Holman, Host (01:03.619)
It's hard to have table stakes in the game.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (01:06.094)
Yeah, for me, you know, I fell into operations side of Association Management originally, then started working with startups and small businesses as well. And, you know, I didn't have any business education, high school, college, whatever. I just kind of learned as I went along and, you know, I kind of got the MBA just to add the letters after my name to Asmar Clout to, you know, the years of hard work I built in learning.
Jeff Holman, Host (01:18.148)
Hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (01:32.151)
the business side of the internal operations side of business. So I was overseeing accounting, finance, HR, legal, et cetera. And one of the education to back up what I'd been doing.
Jeff Holman, Host (01:43.606)
that's awesome. That's awesome. I mean, that's the route that a lot of our audience has taken, right? They haven't necessarily all got a lot of letters behind their name, but they've got a lot of, we'll call it dirt under their fingernails and such. They've been down those paths. So no, it's a good place to be. Well, today's part of our advisory insights episodes for the month, and we're talking about how CEOs of scaling companies evaluate
and make big decisions in the company. You know, there's a lot of chances for CEOs to make decisions all day long, every day, but we want to focus on what are those big pivotal decisions that they make and really what are the frameworks that they can draw on and, you know, maybe come to people like you and say, hey, Jon, how do I approach this decision? This is a more meaningful decision in the business. Maybe it's, you know, maybe it's life-changing or whatever, but it's a bigger decision.
man, I just want to be more careful about how I do this than every other decision I do. So is that something you work with CEOs on?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (02:45.08)
Sure, I work on the operational side of the house, but my business has really, and my work has really come to also include leadership mindset and culture. Throughout over the years, that's what I've really learned that to create sustainable growth, you have to cover all three of those areas. The mindset of the leadership, how they're thinking, how they're operating, the culture, meaning how you bring the team along with you, the operations side of the house, which is how we function day day basis. And that really became the basis for...
Jeff Holman, Host (03:01.038)
Mm-hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (03:13.558)
my book, The Curious Leader, where I talk about curious leaders change how we think, how we work, and how we connect.
Jeff Holman, Host (03:21.272)
Yeah, I love that. I want to hear more about the curious leader and the curious leadership framework that you've got in the book. So, well, what's a typical engagement look like for you? Who do you work with? What level of contact do you have with the CEO? What types of companies are you working with?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (03:38.511)
Yeah, usually the CEO or founder is my main contact. I'm usually working with that. So I'm working with small businesses, startups, nonprofits, associations. it's, I'd say that sweet spot is, you know, kind of five to $50 million range, whether that's revenue or fundraising coming in for a startup. I'd say the startup is a little different. I tend to work with them in the beginning phases.
Jeff Holman, Host (03:46.98)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman, Host (04:01.375)
Mm-hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (04:04.142)
When they don't necessarily have the process procedures set up the way they should, they don't really have someone, experienced person at least, overseeing the operational side of the house. Whereas the small business and association side is more about helping them break through stagnation when it comes to growth. So I'm gonna meet those different industries at different places.
Jeff Holman, Host (04:26.316)
that makes sense. And every startup at those early stages is so uniquely tied to the founder and their vision and their personality that you kind of have to approach every one of those as its own engagement. When someone reaches out to you and says, hey, I got this issue I'm dealing with, or I'm looking to improve my business in this way, what usually triggers them?
to like what's going on in the business where they just say, man, I've been looking at these, these metrics, or I've been seeing these signals in the business. gotta, I gotta figure out how to maybe draw on some additional expertise.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (05:02.606)
Yeah, so usually a couple of scenarios here. One is, you know, thinking of like, know something is not working. I just don't know what it is. Right. Or I know what I know and I don't know. don't know. Like, you know, one of my conversations in last couple of weeks was was with a with lawyer who founded a law firm that was at two locations about to branch into a third. And he kind of like he hit his wall. He's like, he's like, this is as far as I can take this operationally without some extra help. And then the other thing is, is piece of it is.
Jeff Holman, Host (05:09.922)
Mm-hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (05:30.702)
You know, we've built a good foundation or we've built a good business. We are growing, but we want to go from five to 50 million. We want to go from 50 to a hundred million. We want to make sure that we have the right foundation. And so that's the other place where they come in and say, Hey, look, you know, there aren't any problems necessarily, but we know we could do a little bit better. We know we could create a better foundation. And how do we do that?
Jeff Holman, Host (05:51.705)
Well, did, yeah, I think a lot of businesses, I mean, they need that, right? Cause they, they've, they've grown from just scrappiness and kind of patching things together and pivoting from one thing to the next to the next with some, maybe some tech debt and just some culture debt along the way. Right. How, how do people, how do people come to the point where they say, I think this is foundational. think I need to step back and, and rework the, the, you know, tools or the processes or the team that I've got. And, and.
put the right things in place now that I know where I'm headed. Like how do they get to that decision point?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (06:27.074)
Yeah, so I think a couple of things. One is when the CEO founder is still finding himself constantly working in the business, everything comes through them, they touch everything, they want to see everything. They know that that's not sustainable. mean, that's one of the first things. seeing that the team and decision-making alignment just isn't there. There's constant slowness and stagnation. Again, you're getting the work done. Things aren't falling apart, per se, but they just feel...
Jeff Holman, Host (06:49.966)
Sure.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (06:54.562)
the cog in the wheel. And I'd say nine times out of 10, it's a gut feeling. You they don't know really what's going on. They don't use the word foundation. They don't use the words alignment. You know, it's something they feel it's just off. And, you know, what we do is our framework is called clarity to execution. Well, we're helping them go in, diagnose what's wrong, a plan to fix those holes and then execute on that. And the diagnosis piece is what a lot of founders and CEOs miss.
Jeff Holman, Host (07:02.957)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman, Host (07:15.32)
Mm-hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (07:24.563)
They take what they already do and they throw more at it, right? More ad spend, more marketing, more people without ever taking the time to diagnose where they are in the moment.
Jeff Holman, Host (07:34.627)
Yeah. So, I mean, it seems like they're, I mean, that's classical strengths finders type stuff, right? Build on your strengths, just keep doing more of the same, but maybe that's not always the solution. You know, as you're explaining that, I'm thinking about my own evolution in my business. And I'm saying to myself, there are some times that maybe you're describing. So I'm just going to throw them out there, see if these are the things that people come up with, you know? And I've said to myself, gosh, I feel like I'm the only one coming up with solutions. There's a lot of work to be done and I've got good people.
But when we need to go to the next level or we encounter a new situation, everyone stops and says, Hey, Jeff, what do you want to do? And like to me, I, I don't mind coming up with solutions because I like solving puzzles. That's probably the, engineer and the attorney inside of me. Right. But, it's not necessarily as scalable if I'm the guy doing all that. Is that kind of what you're describing?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (08:29.807)
Yeah, that's a big part of it. That's the culture piece, right? So again, that's another piece that people miss is, you know, the Curious Leader book, when I talk about how we shift, how we connect, that's the culture piece, how we bring our team along with us. And if we're gonna continue to grow, scale, and innovate, the founder and CEO cannot be the only one. There was actually a study by Google. Google was trying to figure out what made teams within Google successful.
So they did thousands of interviews, questionnaires, et cetera. It was called Project Aristotle, stolen from Aristotle's view of that the whole is better than the parts. And what they came back with was psychological safety. What that means is the leaders creating an environment that encourages people to speak up, speak out, bring ideas, point out problems. And the thought that always comes to my head when talking about this is we've probably all experienced some version of this story.
Jeff Holman, Host (08:57.764)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman, Host (09:07.405)
Okay.
Jeff Holman, Host (09:11.172)
Hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (09:26.285)
where the CEO founder, you know, through some work that they're doing, discovers some problem and they're so excited about it. And they come to the team, you know, describe the problem, go to the person who tactfully handles that issue every single day. And the person's like, yeah, I know. I've known for six months. And what always happens, the leader gets mad at the employee. Why didn't you speak up? But what I always turn it back around, I'm like, why didn't you create the environment where they did speak up?
Why aren't you creating these mechanisms in how this employee is managed, whether it's the CEO or someone between the two, that's tapping into them? Hey, what are you seeing? What's wrong? How can we do things differently? Those are the conversations that are missing in organizations to where all ideas have to flow from the top.
Jeff Holman, Host (10:14.475)
Yeah, I've brought this up on other episodes. I don't mean to keep breaking it up, but it's maybe so basic and so fundamental. The Patrick Lencioni only has five dysfunctions of a team, When you talk about psychological safety, that's how you get trust and how you get the buy-in, what is it, the weigh-in, the buy-in layers of a functional team as opposed to the absence of those in a dysfunctional team. So yeah, the psychological safety, that's a great topic. And one that...
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (10:36.089)
Yeah, 100%.
Jeff Holman, Host (10:43.405)
think for lot of leaders feels like it's just, you know, like, I want it, and I want to accomplish it, but do I have time? I'm running fast, maybe hustling or grinding a few of those words. But you know, how does a busy leader incorporate more psychological safety into what they're doing on top of the other things that they're trying to accomplish?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (11:06.543)
So this usually begins my work with working with the CEO of focusing on the leadership mindset, first of all. And one of the biggest things I have to work with him on and letting go, right? Letting go of control. mean, I was working with a young, ridiculously smart startup founder, working 20 hours a day, burning out his team left and right, but he wanted to touch and see everything. like, I had to get through to him and like, buddy, like, you don't need to see a bill until it's ready to be paid. Like, you don't need to see a bill coming through the process five different steps.
Jeff Holman, Host (11:11.671)
Okay.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (11:35.952)
And like I had to work with him. like, you those are the type of little things I often have to work with them on first is to free up that time. The other piece of that is it doesn't take as much time as you think. And like, and here's, here's a small suggestion to give them a, just a tweak of what you already do. When we're in a meeting as leaders, managers, and there's, you know, we're rehashing a problem, a launch, whatever it may be. The leader manager comes in and says, Hey, this happened. These are my thoughts.
Here's what I think we should do about it, blah, blah, blah. And then they say, what do you guys think? You just brought that entire team your direction. You just made no one speak up to discount what you said, regardless of how they feel. So one simple suggestion is just flip the order. Ask them what they think first, get their perspectives as the people working on the ground, seeing what's really going on, and then engage in the conversation. So it doesn't take any more time.
just a reframing of how we approach our staff and how we change our mindset to show them that we value their opinion and what their perspective is and how this organization runs.
Jeff Holman, Host (12:45.345)
Yeah, I mean that all makes sense. Easier said than done perhaps, but still doable, right? Do you have some situations with founders or CEOs that you've worked with where you've seen this kind of create magic in the business for them?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (12:59.631)
Yeah, 100%. Just the amount of business owners who think they have a process, just because there are steps to do things or things are getting done. And I work with them and I'm like, you don't trust your team, you don't trust the process. Let's see what a real process is. Let me show you how to trust your team. And they're just like, man, this is so much easier. Like I am spending five hours a week on accounting.
Jeff Holman, Host (13:10.019)
Mm-hmm.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (13:29.507)
which I shouldn't be in at all. Just those little things. the light bulb you see go off in a leader's head when they finally start trusting their team, when they take one little step. It's small and simple little steps you can take to transform the culture where you're really empowering your team to get things done and just seeing that so much more gets done quicker. So many problems are brought to life sooner.
and so many new ideas are brought up. Like that's where the real magic happens. The process stuff we work on to help the leaders get there, save time, save money, all that type of stuff. But when they really see the work of their team come to life and bring their unique perspectives and make things better, that's where the real magic flies.
Jeff Holman, Host (14:14.859)
Okay, I mean that all makes sense. you say trust the process, excuse me, we've kind of been talking about trusting the team, but you also add in trust the process. Are those the same thing or are those different?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (14:25.583)
They overlap. mean, the process to me is always got to include the team. So if you have the steps, the things to do, again, I can see a lot about a leadership mindset, the operation and the cultural organization by watching how they work in accounting. It is one of those things like the number of times I've worked with a CEO who does not trust anyone in their business.
Jeff Holman, Host (14:45.57)
Okay.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (14:54.457)
to send out an invoice but themselves to a client shows me a lot.
Jeff Holman, Host (14:58.583)
So you're actually saying that you use the accounting, the CEO finance or CEO accounting relationship as maybe a broader diagnostic tool.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (15:09.647)
It shows me so much about their mindset, their control, the operations they have and how the team works. so when you, you may be doing all the right things to have an efficient accounting process, but if you still aren't trusting the team and you're still dipping your toe in every step of this, even though the process is right, you don't really trust the process. The process has to include trusting your team to get it to the places it needs to be.
Jeff Holman, Host (15:16.055)
Interesting.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (15:37.879)
as it goes up and you only being involved in that final approval stage, whether it's paying the bill or final improvement of the bill to be paid, you don't need to step into that. So absolutely the process is the full process, but trusting the team is part of that.
Jeff Holman, Host (15:54.436)
Yeah, that all makes sense. So if you were to step into, say, my business doing a few million, or you were to step into one of my clients' in e-commerce doing, or SaaS doing, you know, 30, $40 million, like what would that look like? You would go in and you would say, hey, let's just sit down, let's talk. By the way, I want to just observe a little bit. Do you have any accounting meetings coming up?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (16:16.224)
yeah, a little, little more framework than that. I have a series of assessments and diagnostics tools I use. some of them are, are, you know, software tools that I use summer discussion. but you know, the, software or the, the accounting stuff, I sit down and talk to whoever is overseeing, you know, the, the, admin side of things, you know, HR, et cetera. It's just conversation, right. About how things are flowing. it, it, you know, nine times out of 10.
Jeff Holman, Host (16:37.347)
Yeah.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (16:45.38)
The person doing it knows what's working and not working. They know where the hurdles are. Just no one's asking them, right? They know there's a better way to do it. They know the CO needs to step out of it. So I tend to go to that person actually doing the work to get the intel as opposed to the CO when it comes to those internal functions because I don't want the CO's version of this. I want the true actual workings day in and day out that are happening.
Jeff Holman, Host (16:48.312)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman, Host (17:10.295)
And how does this translate? It sounds like what you're doing is you're really going to get the parts and pieces in place so that the machine, if we can call it that, just operates a lot more smoothly, which then allows the CEO to step out. Then they can do visionary stuff. Then they can grow and they can delegate. you know, how does this play into or lead up to these big decisions? Do you find that the team gets more involved in big decisions going forward?
or are you, I don't know, does the CEO, are they able to hand off big decisions or how does all this translate into evaluating and making big decisions in a business?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (17:51.569)
Yeah, I think there's a couple ways. One is the alignment, right? When your executive team's aligned, when your leadership management team's aligned, as well as your entire staff, like decisions flow much quicker. You all are rowing the same boat, the same direction, right? Where we're in stall, we have one side of the boat rowing left, one side of the boat rowing right, or some going reverse, right? Like that's when problems happen. And so, one of first things we look at is alignment. And then the operational efficiency side of it,
Jeff Holman, Host (18:06.883)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman, Host (18:13.795)
Yeah.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (18:21.552)
Yeah, one of the biggest things I can help a CEO do is get out of the operations, make it more efficient so they can step out of it. And if most CEOs and founders, you ask them, you what would, you stepping out of working in the business, to 15 hours a week, so you can work on the business, the strategy, the vision, the execution, what would that do for your business? They'd say it'd change everything.
Jeff Holman, Host (18:37.346)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman, Host (18:44.74)
In some of the engagements you've had, what are some of the most shocking outcomes when people go through this process with you?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (18:53.54)
The freedom, right? I think the CEO's freedom to do what they want to do, to feel the confidence to step away is a key thing that I always hear back and forth. It's just like, now I have, know, use the phrase, process I can trust where I can step out of my business. I no longer feel it is going to explode in a negative way every time I walk away. The other thing is the amount of net income increase.
that the business sees by working on these internal functions. It was like doing the inner work. We have to do the inner work on ourselves to be the right mindset for leadership in our families and showing up how we show up every day. You gotta do the same inner work for your business. And these are not sometimes the sexy flashy things. I'm not an ad marketer who's gonna say, if you put X number dollars, I will 10X your ROAS. I don't have that quick straight through line, but.
as they're sitting in and they're seeing the alignment start happening, they see the efficiency happening, they improve their operational strength and maturity, everything comes together. Most of our businesses that really follow our plans start seeing a 10 to 12 % increase in net profit in six to 12 months.
Jeff Holman, Host (20:09.079)
Yeah, no, that makes sense. And I feel like we're talking a lot about the benefits and the context around it. I want to get to maybe if you have like a step-by-step framework or something like that, I'd love to kind of hear that and let the audience take something away if that applies. before we get to that point, I just want to address one situation I've seen in some businesses. And that is that I feel like I talked to some CEOs and teams.
And I see them and they all want to make this, they want to make this switch. They want to jump and level up to the, you know, go from 1 million to 2 million or 5 to 8 or, you know, 20 to 25, whatever that number is, they want to, they want to make this jump. But then you see them stall. It's like everyone's on board and the team seems to function, but getting the results or just putting things in place for some reason just never takes hold.
Is there a reason for that?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (21:08.336)
Fear. mean, that's one of the things I talk about on a regular basis is fear, habits, and comfort. I mean, these are natural elements in the human condition. You can look at evolutionary-wise, biology, psychology, whatever you want to call that. Fear, comfort, and habits allows us to survive on a daily basis and has for some period of time, But when it comes to innovation, growth, and change, they're the enemy. So that's why you have to create that mechanism.
Jeff Holman, Host (21:26.338)
Yeah.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (21:34.846)
to break through that. And that's to me where curiosity comes into play. Curiosity is what allows us to look beyond our current situation limitations and dare to dream something different. Leaders get stuck because of fear, majority of the time. Even, talking about decision making. Nine times out of 10, a decision maker is not making the decision because of fear. Now we use terms like paralysis by analysis and all those things.
The over analysis is a symptom of fear, because they're afraid to get the wrong answer. And leaders will sit in what they know doesn't work, will not move them forward, because they're afraid of trying something new. And that's the hardest part to get over. that's a psychology, psychological component, a mindset component. And that's, I gotta get COs to lower their guard. And that's where letting go, letting go of control, letting go of fear, all of those components come into play.
If you really want to innovate, grow and change, you've got to look beyond your current situations and try new things.
Jeff Holman, Host (22:38.807)
Yeah, that makes sense. I think there are entire topics around fear that I would love to explore in depth. But for now, just in this episode, what's a framework or maybe a step-by-step checklist, whatever it might be? What's something our audience who are scaling CEOs, building businesses, busy, they're the types of people we're describing and talking about. What's something they could take away from this episode and say, okay, I think I can put that into place?
you know, next week. I might need some help, might need to call Jon, but that's something that I'd like to start to try to implement with my team.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (23:14.351)
Yeah, I think every founder, every CEO out there, every manager out there has something in their business and their department that their gut tells them isn't working right. We've all been there, right? Like just something that like we don't ever talk about it, but just something in our operations or some aspect that just doesn't seem right. That's where you start.
that place where your gut is telling you something is off. And what you do is you map the process and you literally, and this is where the mindset, the culture and the operations all come together. Where that connectivity happens is where the magic shines. And so you have to have the leadership mindset to say, Hey, look, I feel something's wrong and I'm going to act on it. Right. The, the, you know, Carol Dweck is considered like the foremost thought leader on, on growth mindset. And she warns about a false growth mindset, which is
We're always thinking, we always had these ideas, but they never turn to action. Or the actions we take or the busy work, they don't really move the needle. We dive into the accounting, we dive into this and that, but it's not the actions we need to take. So you have to get beyond that false growth mindset and understand there's something wrong, least have the perception there might be something wrong and take the action. So here's what you do. You bring your team together. Anyone who touches this project, process, whatever it may be, bring them all in, because everyone's gonna have a unique perspective into how this operates.
Jeff Holman, Host (24:05.943)
Yeah.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (24:31.525)
and you draw out the process. What goes where, when and why, who touches it and lay it all out. And then you start analyzing it. So first you map it, then you analyze. You find the gaps and holes, you find the ways to make it more efficient. You find the right tool that's gonna help it all better. And you brainstorm together and you draft a new process and then you execute it. And the last part of that is pinpoint someone in that process who has decision-making authority
to keep it running and keep it running correctly. That's the best way to move forward.
Jeff Holman, Host (25:02.198)
Hmm. Man, I love that. We might need to put those into like a list for the show notes or something. As I'm thinking about it, you know, the steps obviously sound good and seem like they would work. But the thing that stands out to me is that, you know, we started talking about team culture and how a team operates effectively. And then we're talking more about process and what you just described, this one, you know, pretty simple action that anybody could take next week.
almost instead of team and process being at odds with each other, it sounds to me like doing this process, you know, or doing this type of activity, I'll call it, will bring process and team together and help them both grow better.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (25:50.758)
Yeah, you know, writing my book and the more I've worked, grown in my consulting with operations, like it's impossible to separate leadership mindset, culture and operations. You have to work on all the three of those simultaneously. You know, another good example that I'll use is we've all also been an experience where, you know, the founder, CEO, manager comes into the situation and says they got something, you know, some, some, some hair.
you know, on the back of their neck stood up, they said, I'm gonna solve this problem. But they never talk to anyone, right? And what usually happens is they're solving the wrong problem. You know, it makes the work harder. And everyone who's doing the work is rolling their eyes and they're like, yeah, we're gonna make his change for two weeks and we're gonna go back, right? Because they don't bring the team along with you. Like the most important thing in letting go is letting go of ego for a leader and thinking you have to have all the right answers.
being a leader should be looked at much more as being a conductor of orchestra, not a trained conductor. With orchestra, the conductor, their job is to prep the team, in practice, get them ready, set the tone for everything. And in concert, they keep the rhythm, they keep the flow. You never see a conductor get down, scold someone for messing up. You don't see the conductor picking up someone's instrument, playing it for them, right? They trust the team, they trust the process.
Jeff Holman, Host (27:11.17)
No, no.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (27:14.662)
They're there to keep the rhythm and help the team get successfully to that last note. That's their job and that's how we have to look at leadership.
Jeff Holman, Host (27:22.966)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I'm thinking about process and team a little bit differently now, even after the short discussion that we've had. So I really appreciate that. Well, if other people listening to this podcast are thinking the same thing I am, and they're like, gosh, this sounds like something I could probably implement in my business. Where would they be able to connect with you, reach out to you? What would be a good way to do that?
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (27:45.5)
Sure, so I have two websites, one on the personal brand site, which is jonbassford.com, just my first last name.com. And my consulting firm is Lateral Solutions, and the URL for that is think-lateral.com. You'll reach out to me through those websites. I'll give your guests my email, it's just jonjowin at think-lateral.com. And reach out to me, always happy to do an initial consult, to figure out what's going on and see if we could help you kind of break through some things and just.
You know, mission, my purpose is to help leaders and organizations grow. And anyway, I can do that. I'd love to help.
Jeff Holman, Host (28:20.864)
I love it, I love it. And just for the record, it doesn't sound like you've wasted your JD at all, your Juris Doctor, you're putting all this to good use for everybody. So I appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your insights and perspectives with us. Yeah, and to our listeners who've joined us for this episode, thanks again for joining us on The Breakout CEO.
Jon Bassford, JD, MBA, CAE (28:32.774)
Thanks for having me, Jeff.
