Many founders treat product-market fit as a turning point.
The assumption is simple: once demand proves real, capital will follow. Investors will see the signal, fund growth, and accelerate the path forward.
In practice, that sequence often breaks down in consumer businesses.
In this episode of The Breakout CEO, Meghan Higney, founder of the footwear brand Message, describes what happens when product-market fit arrives quickly but investor capital does not. The result is a strategic shift many founders underestimate: the business must be redesigned around the cash that actually exists.
For CEOs operating in capital-intensive sectors, once traction appears, leaders must decide whether to keep chasing external funding or restructure the company around financial reality.
Delaying that choice creates operational strain that compounds quickly.
Consumer founders often experience early demand signals sooner than they expect.
The product resonates. Customers buy quickly. Media coverage appears. Early data confirms the founder’s intuition.
That is exactly what happened when Meghan launched Message.
The brand’s slide-style footwear quickly attracted attention and early customers. Media coverage validated the concept. The target customer responded immediately.
Yet, the expected investor momentum never materialized.
As Meghan put it:
“Strong product-market fit didn’t mean investors cared.”
The disconnect reflects a structural reality of consumer businesses. Early traction answers the question “Do customers want this?”
It does not answer the more difficult question investors are evaluating: “Can this scale efficiently?”
In consumer goods, the answer depends less on demand than on operational economics — especially working capital.
The underlying constraint in many consumer businesses is simple but unforgiving.
Inventory must be financed before it can be sold.
Manufacturing runs require upfront capital. Inventory must be produced months before demand materializes. Seasonal cycles amplify the pressure.
Even when demand exists, the business cannot grow without funding the gap between production and revenue.
Meghan described the constraint directly:
“The path from here to there as an inventory consumer brand is cash.”
This reality reframes the founder’s challenge:
Product-market fit solves the market validation problem.
Working capital solves the scaling problem.
When external capital is unavailable, the second problem becomes the founder’s responsibility.
Founders rarely anticipate how quickly this tension forces strategic decisions.
Meghan initially expected that early traction would unlock aligned investors, not necessarily large venture rounds, but enough capital to support thoughtful growth.
That assumption proved incorrect.
The consequence required rethinking how the company would operate.
Hiring decisions changed. External partners were reduced. Functions were brought in-house. Growth pacing had to adjust to the rhythm of available cash rather than the pace of market demand.
In retrospect, Meghan described the delay in adjusting strategy as a key learning:
“It did not change my strategy quickly enough… I had to hard pivot.”
This moment appears frequently in founder-led consumer companies. The business reaches a point where operating assumptions built around expected capital must be replaced with assumptions grounded in actual capital.
The pivot is rarely optional.
When resources are limited, founders must decide what truly matters for the next stage of the company.
Meghan encountered this repeatedly while scaling Message. Marketing partnerships that once seemed essential became optional. External support functions moved in-house. Operational decisions became tightly tied to cash preservation.
Over time, the constraint stopped feeling like a temporary problem and became the operating environment.
Financial constraints produce operational changes, but they also trigger a psychological transition.
Investor enthusiasm, which often reinforces founder confidence, may never arrive. Media attention does not translate into capital. Market traction does not guarantee institutional support.
At that point, one form of validation remains:
Founder conviction.
“Nobody is going to hold the belief to build this business besides you.”
For founders operating without external capital, this shift becomes decisive. Strategic discipline and operational creativity must now coexist with internal conviction strong enough to sustain momentum without outside endorsement.
Not every founder chooses to continue under those conditions.
Those who do must adjust both strategy and mindset.
Three realities tend to emerge simultaneously:
Recognizing these dynamics early changes how founders plan growth. Instead of assuming capital will appear once traction emerges, CEOs can design operating models capable of surviving longer without it, and that shift often produces a more disciplined company.
The irony of Meghan's experience is that the constraint she initially resisted may ultimately strengthen the company.
Operating without abundant capital forces careful decisions about hiring, growth pacing, inventory planning, and operational efficiency.
It reduces the margin for unfocused expansion.
Many durable consumer companies were built this way; with discipline imposed by necessity rather than preference.
In that sense, the absence of capital becomes a forcing function for operational clarity.
When product-market fit arrives, founders face a moment that is often misunderstood.
The market has validated the product, but the company’s operating model has not yet been validated.
If capital flows easily, that distinction is easier to ignore. If capital does not arrive, the founder must decide whether to redesign the company around constraint or continue searching for external support.
Meghan chose the latter.
The lesson for scaling CEOs is not that capital is unnecessary.
Meghan Higney's lesson for scaling CEOs is that product-market fit alone does not solve the capital problem, and when the market validates demand before investors validate scale, leadership discipline becomes the bridge between the two.
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Meghan Higney is the founder of Message, a footwear brand focused on slide-style shoes designed for comfort and everyday movement.
Before launching Message, she worked in investment banking, private equity, and senior leadership roles within consumer brands, including scaling companies in the beauty and consumer packaged goods sectors.
Her experience spans both investing in consumer businesses and building them — providing a rare perspective on the operational and financial realities founders face when launching and scaling a consumer brand.
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/meghigney
Message: www.wearmessage.com
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
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The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
Transcript Summary
Full Transcript (AI generated and might include errors)
Jeff Holman (08:05.842)
Welcome back to the Breakout CEO Podcast. I'm your host, Jeff Holman. I'm here today with Meghan Higney. Meghan, welcome to the show.
Meghan Higney (08:21.4)
Thank you so much, Jeff.
Jeff Holman (08:22.886)
Yeah, it's great to have you. Meghan, I've read a little bit about your background. We've talked just briefly before the show and you've done a fair number of things from investing to advising entrepreneurs to now running your own brand. And you said something just moments ago that I kind of want to kick this off. I've got a few other questions that I was excited to ask, but this one pushed itself to the top here. You said that you're creating a
You're creating a brand with Message, shoes, right? And how did you put it? You said, where are these shoes taking me? Yeah, think you said it better than that though. What was it you said?
Meghan Higney (09:00.238)
Yeah, I was saying that, you know, it's a brand that's about these mundane moments, right? That where we walk, you know, in our day, where our feet can take us as much as they are kind of the big dreamscape. Where might these shoes take me? It's sort of the both end of the here and now, be here now and dream about where we're going.
Jeff Holman (09:20.016)
Yes.
Jeff Holman (09:25.754)
I love that. And I want to get into that in the episode and figure out where your shoes have taken you and where they're going to take you. But first, a little bit more background just because a few things caught my attention as I looked at other parts of your background. I think you said that you lived in East Bay. Is that right?
Meghan Higney (09:31.732)
Okay.
Meghan Higney (09:44.718)
Yep, most recently Oakland. I was San Francisco for 15 years and then Oakland for the past few until now I'm in Mexico.
Jeff Holman (09:53.619)
Okay. Oh, very nice. I'll have to figure out what part of Mexico in a moment. I lived in Pleasanton for a few years with my family. Absolutely loved it. Just over the hill. So it's a wonderful area. What part of Mexico are you in now?
Meghan Higney (09:57.006)
Yeah. Yeah.
Okay.
Meghan Higney (10:05.772)
Yep, yep, exactly. Yeah.
Meghan Higney (10:10.892)
We're in San Miguel de Allende. Are you familiar?
Jeff Holman (10:14.456)
No, I went to Cancun for a week this year and other than that, I haven't spent much time in Mexico.
Meghan Higney (10:17.294)
Yeah, San Miguel is actually like the exact center of the country. So we're four hours, four hours kind of west, maybe southwest, northwest of Mexico City.
Jeff Holman (10:24.569)
okay.
Jeff Holman (10:34.382)
Okay, so it's not coastal. okay. That's high desert. What's the elevation there? Do you know?
Meghan Higney (10:36.524)
Not coastal, landlocked, beautiful, high desert.
Meghan Higney (10:45.176)
Like, yeah, it's over 6,000 feet, almost seven. Like seven, yeah, Mexico City's a little higher than us.
Jeff Holman (10:48.152)
Okay, because Mexico City is like seven or something, right?
OK, we're about 4,300 where I'm at here in Utah. So you're up there. Well, that's fantastic. The other thing I heard in some of your background was that you're maybe a soccer player. Is that right? Little football. I don't know. I heard it somewhere.
Meghan Higney (10:56.659)
yeah, of course. Yeah, we are.
Meghan Higney (11:06.388)
Yeah, how did you get that? Yes, football. mean, it's funny because I would have said, well, I used to be, know, growing up, I was a huge soccer player, but now in Mexico, we have a pickup game every Sunday. And I, it's adult, it's our, with our kids. So it's parents and kids, mean, parents who play, but some of them are, we go kind of hard. yeah, now I'm playing every week.
Jeff Holman (11:20.774)
Do you?
Jeff Holman (11:24.412)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (11:29.81)
Oh, well, yeah. That's fantastic. Parents and kids. And is it outdoors? Is it on a cement? Because sometimes you're playing, I don't know what they call it in Mexico, in Peru when I was there for a while, they call it full beat. And I play, yeah, it's grass. OK. Oh, very nice. And what position do you like?
Meghan Higney (11:38.818)
Yeah, yeah.
Meghan Higney (11:46.624)
Okay, Fútbolito or something. No, it's grass, it's concha, it's normal, yeah.
Meghan Higney (11:56.974)
I mean, I used to play striker when I was young, but now, I mean, I guess I kind of try to hang up there so that I don't have to run as much with these young kids. I'm like, you guys stay in the midfield. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I can't play mid with these children. They have lungs like no other. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (12:06.706)
the typical striker. You only run for the goal.
Jeff Holman (12:16.946)
That's funny. That's funny. Well, I play, well, I haven't played for about a month and a half. I usually play two or three times a week with some friends, also pick up footsall. I'm managing a broken foot today. So I will be back on the court in a few months. Yeah, it was actually, mean, we might as well get it all out there. was my brother who kicked me in the outside of the foot. It was not malicious, although I might pretend it is when I talk to him next time.
Meghan Higney (12:25.696)
Okay. Yeah. No.
Meghan Higney (12:34.136)
from playing.
Jeff Holman (12:46.87)
And he just clipped me and broke my metatarsal and now I've got a nice big pin. So it's not going to break again once it heals.
Meghan Higney (12:51.074)
Wow, I'm sorry that happened.
Jeff Holman (12:57.81)
You know, I miss it a lot even for the six or seven weeks it's been, but there are a lot worse things in life. So I'm managing. Yep. So, well, good. That was just a couple of things that caught my attention. And I thought, oh, I want to make sure that's out there. So.
Meghan Higney (13:00.728)
Yeah. Yeah. Totally. You'll be back. Yep.
Meghan Higney (13:11.542)
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, the soccer was a part of my, you know, coming to this brand, right? Because I was, I wore slides my whole childhood, right? You know, Adilette, the soccer slides, take your sweaty, you take your sweaty cleats off and slip your foot into a slide. So that was like, that started my love affair with this particular silhouette. And I always wondered.
Jeff Holman (13:28.739)
Uh-huh.
Jeff Holman (13:34.033)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (13:40.076)
Is it just me because I was like, loved soccer growing up that I'm wondering why nobody has obsessed over perfecting this silhouette. And that was from my soccer days.
Jeff Holman (13:50.065)
Yeah. So was it was it like a pretty close connection or was it more like reflecting back and all of sudden you're like, wait a second. I love those slides. I want to wear slides, but maybe I'm not going to buy the Nikes or Adidas, you know, the one of the customary black slides for post soccer game.
Meghan Higney (14:08.716)
Right, right, right, right. No, I mean, I think it was, look, in my day-to-day wardrobe and my style, I really did appreciate a slide. And Birkenstocks were not my thing. They never really worked for my style or even felt super comfortable like everyone said they were. But then the cheap rubber Adilette, was like, hold on, I care more than this. So then I just started buying up all the different designer slides that kind of wore that same vibe. But then I was like,
Jeff Holman (14:15.964)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (14:38.488)
These are uncomfortable and they're very expensive. So it was not like a, it wasn't necessarily a like top of mind thing, but it was a lived experience that then when everything came to a head, I was like, look at the market, you know, we're perfecting the sneaker with new materials like wool, a flat, you know, we're knitting a flat, like where is the slide love?
Jeff Holman (14:48.018)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (14:59.12)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (15:05.742)
you know, and then it became more of like a market, you know, my investor brain turned on and it became more of like, what's the opportunity here?
Jeff Holman (15:14.878)
I want to get to that moment. Let's back up a little bit though. Tell me what types of things you were doing before that moment hit where you said, I'm going to build a shoe company. I'm going to build a company that sells better slides. What led up to that?
Meghan Higney (15:16.461)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (15:25.357)
Yeah.
Yep. Yeah, so my career, you know, I started kind of finance typical like, you know, investment banking analyst, and I went to private equity. I was actually focused on healthcare, but that's sort of at the private equity firms where I realized I have a real affinity for consumer, you know, and I think I had resisted that for various reasons. But finally, I just
Jeff Holman (15:37.574)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (15:54.016)
accepted like, I'm quite good at thinking through the consumer lens. And maybe it's because I shop a lot, but like, whatever, let's use what we got, you know? So I started to really fall in love with the consumer space and consumer brands. And then I went and I helped two founders build their consumer brand in the beauty space. Sort of at like the height or really kind of we were early in the clean beauty movement.
Jeff Holman (15:59.409)
Yeah, yeah.
Jeff Holman (16:15.406)
Okay.
Jeff Holman (16:21.745)
Hmm.
Meghan Higney (16:21.848)
So I joined when we were very small and then I helped them to scale. I ended up as the president and then CEO for a short while while we recruited a new CEO and I transitioned to a food brand at that point. So it was at the food brand that I was at for a short bit, super hyper growth that we were experiencing and I had just had my daughter that I thought of Message.
Jeff Holman (16:36.005)
Okay.
Jeff Holman (16:49.782)
okay. So you've been you've done quite a bit then from investment banking to clean beauty at the front end of that wave, it sounds like and food, what kind of food were you in?
Meghan Higney (16:57.026)
Yup. Yup. Yup.
Food was sauces and seasonings, CPG. So yeah, it was, I went from e-comm and beauty to retail, right? Like we were highly distributed in the biggest cost, big box retailers, Costco, Walmart, et cetera.
Jeff Holman (17:04.676)
Okay, so.
Jeff Holman (17:10.972)
Got it.
Jeff Holman (17:17.358)
Okay. And then and then you're like, Hey, what's next for me? had a baby, your daughter, and then you're like, why not? Why not make shoes? Did you did you proactively search out an opportunity to make shoes? Or is it something that just kind of evolved and you're like, I think I'm feeling it. I think I want to get back into this. What? What What am I going to do?
Meghan Higney (17:23.062)
Yep. Yep.
Meghan Higney (17:36.986)
No, no, proactively avoided building a shoe brand because I knew enough to know that footwear is complicated. And I had been in the high margin, beautiful replenishment category of beauty. And I was like, why would I ever consider building a shoe brand where I've got sizes and skew proliferation? No, I resisted it for a long time. And I can joke about it from the...
Jeff Holman (17:52.945)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (18:06.798)
you know, kind of strategic and analytical lens, but I also, I was really nervous to start my own thing. I really think I started to identify as the person who supports other people in doing theirs. And so the leap to allowing myself as someone who was the sole provider financially for my family and was not like, you know, a 19 year old
Jeff Holman (18:22.534)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (18:36.758)
you know, like college student, you know, whatever, like I feel like you have exactly, kind of have those like tropes of the entrepreneur, right? It's like either, you have a backstop, you know, you've got some cash in the bank, let's see what you can do, or you're young and you're youthful and it doesn't matter. Like I was squarely, yes, I was not that. So I think I held a lot of judgment too. Am I allowed to do this? Is this safe? Is this even smart?
Jeff Holman (18:38.574)
No responsibilities, just carefree. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (18:44.507)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (18:53.721)
Nothing to lose.
Meghan Higney (19:06.177)
to do to my family, to my family, right? Versus for my family at that point because it felt like a big risk. So yes, the journey to founding Message was a reluctant one on many fronts.
Jeff Holman (19:11.026)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (19:22.396)
Did that hesitation come mostly because of the analytical background you had? You're like, I can run the numbers, I've seen the industry, or was there something deeper there? You're like, because it sounds almost like you're saying, give myself permission to do this. Sounds like it might be more than just numbers.
Meghan Higney (19:35.98)
Yes.
100%. More than numbers and both. Like I often hear people, entrepreneurs talk about how, and I've seen many entrepreneurs who really thrived not knowing what they didn't know. And I could understand that because I was quite, I think at many moments in the journey to starting this, I felt a bit too eyes wide open. Right? In terms of, you know.
Jeff Holman (19:51.271)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (20:05.232)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (20:05.964)
just some of the realities of what I was stepping into. But of course it was more an emotional block of like, poof, know, everything from ever since I was investing in founders, when I was at the equity firm, we largely were investing in bootstrap entrepreneurs and who had done really, really well. And I immediately energetically felt and said many times to the people I've worked most closely with, like,
Jeff Holman (20:21.19)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (20:35.394)
I'm supposed to be on the other side of the table. I just knew it. I don't know how I felt it. So I think whatever that was 15 years later or something, it was definitely a permission granting that I had to do to let myself step into the thing I had always felt or maybe dreamed about doing. It was like, am I allowed to do this? Have I earned the right?
Jeff Holman (20:38.193)
Mmm.
Jeff Holman (21:00.341)
What that seems counterintuitive if you were if you were already contemplating or you kind of envisioned 15 years down the road, you sometime in the future, you're going to be here. What was holding you back? Like, what was it that said, no, you can't or you shouldn't or I mean, is it just the responsibilities or something larger?
Meghan Higney (21:11.148)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (21:19.062)
You know, no, I think that's a great question. think have you ever have you ever gotten into the
Who wrote the book? I mean, it's basically like upper limit thinking mentality or the upper limit theory, which is essentially about humans. We evolved to kind of have our heads on the swivel, right? So it was not comfortable for us to be super comfortable. And so that we have this like upper limit of happiness is essentially the idea behind the theory. And I think there was an...
Jeff Holman (21:35.398)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (21:51.428)
Okay. The thermometer, right? Like we get too high on, know, too far away from our comfort zone and we pull back, whether that's too much success, too much failure. And we're like, wait, wait, it's easier right here. Yeah. Okay.
Meghan Higney (21:56.6)
Too high again. it's like, yes.
Exactly, Upper limit. And I think there was an element of that at play, which was like, since it was the thing I always knew that I was meant to do, wanted to do, fill in the blank, that felt like it was hitting up against my upper limit to actually do it.
Jeff Holman (22:19.057)
You know, I call that, I work with lot of innovators and inventors and people who are creating new things. And I call that one of the four fears of innovators. it's the, you know, it's not the fear of failure. It's not the fear of theft or whatever. It's the fear of success. And it's like, what happens if this really does work? And I think it's going to, but when it does, like, what's it going to do to impact my family? And then how is that going to impact relationships?
Meghan Higney (22:39.628)
Yeah. See? Yeah.
Jeff Holman (22:47.409)
What type of commitment do I have to make to actually like grow the thing properly the way it deserves to be grown if it is successful? Like I think there's an aspect of that to all of us.
Meghan Higney (22:56.974)
100 % and it's like speaking of counterintuitive, you know, it's kind of counterintuitive right? You're like I'm taking the biggest risk. Of course, that's the thing I want but it's also maybe the thing I'm most afraid of.
Jeff Holman (23:09.583)
Yeah, yeah. And that likely ties back into Message, right? Like you've got a shoe brand, like I love the word, I love the brand Message because from a trademark standpoint, it makes a lot of sense if you're building long-term value in the brand. But it has nothing to do with, at least not on the surface, with shoes or slides. How did you land on that?
Meghan Higney (23:27.981)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (23:35.212)
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Yeah, you know, when I was building Message, and we'll talk about this more, I'm sure, but we've already alluded to, like, it was quite the journey to get there. And that was a personal journey. That was a growth journey. And it just really landed for me that the messages we tell ourselves are the most important things we can tend to in this life. you know, pause on that. Messages, because those are our thoughts.
Jeff Holman (24:04.901)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (24:06.251)
And our thoughts become our feelings and our feelings lead to action and our action leads to outcome.
And yeah, there was a long time when I was telling pretty limited messages to myself, you know? so it just really resonated that like, of course, this is starting from the ground up, you know, that I'm freeing my toes, you know, what does, you know, that's a very physical, literal interpretation. But this idea of really freeing myself, that comes from...
Jeff Holman (24:21.36)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (24:32.529)
You
Jeff Holman (24:36.39)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (24:41.144)
tending to these messages and that I wanted to be both a founder and a brand whose purpose was not just comfort on our body, but comfort in our body, hence the Message.
Jeff Holman (24:53.766)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (24:57.627)
Well, I think we're going to build up to this because I want to hear about building Message. And maybe I jumped in a little too soon, but I love it. I love what you're doing. And the fact that you've got a message behind it, like it kind of makes me think, is this like a Toms? Like Toms has a cause behind it, right? And you buy a pair, they give a pair, all that stuff. why is that? Is that really prevalent in the industry? Like, is that easy to do a shoes? Why shoes?
Meghan Higney (25:13.259)
Okay. Okay.
Meghan Higney (25:27.746)
Why shoes for the buy a pair give a pair model of coms or
Jeff Holman (25:30.415)
Well, just like using shoes, I guess, yeah, let me articulate that question better. I think a lot of people, a lot of shoe brands tend to carry a lot of weight to them, right? And so whether it's Tom's shoes saying, hey, you know, not only do we want to put shoes on your feet, we have a broader mission. And you saying, hey, like there's this whole deeper meaning to putting your feet into slides, exposing your toes.
Meghan Higney (25:42.487)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (26:00.284)
being free to walk around, where will your shoes take you, the message behind those. I guess why do we have this deep connection to shoes? Is that a thing or am I just making that up?
Meghan Higney (26:00.302)
Mhm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (26:08.046)
Mmm.
Yeah, that's an interesting question. No, it's an interesting observation. I think, yeah, I think that there's a couple of different ways to look at it because with Tom's, like they obviously had an interesting business model, you know, by the nature of their shoe, their silhouette, how it was made, you know, that enabled them to give purpose in the way of gifting shoes, right? And when I built Message, I was very clear, like,
Jeff Holman (26:27.995)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (26:36.58)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (26:40.382)
both just the nature of how expensive it is for us to manufacture in Portugal. That wasn't going to be baked into our business model. But I think it's an interesting, I mean, not overtly. I think what I knew is given the message and the purpose and the mission behind this, of course, there's going to be a give back component. What is that going to look like? And there's a lot of ways that I built the shoe itself to enable that from
Jeff Holman (27:03.697)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (27:10.028)
like an environmental perspective. There are organizations I'm already talking with about doing cool things for them. So that's just because, duh, you know, we're a brand with heart, like we're going to do good things. But I think it's an interesting observation around people giving meaning to a shoe brand. And I like it because obviously I'm kind of a geek when it comes to feet, but like, you know, our feet are literally our connectors to the earth.
Jeff Holman (27:20.603)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (27:38.246)
There's whether or not where you sit on the spectrum of know, earthing and the science of what our body connecting to this planet, you know, can do, you know, for what's actually going on in our body, you know, and the transmission between the two spaces. Whether or not you believe in that is the truth, right? Like our feet are on the earth. And there's, when I started building this brand, like chuckled, you know, someone who loves
Jeff Holman (27:38.511)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (28:03.536)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (28:08.014)
how much we could just go to town, you know, with all of like, you know, where your feet can, with all of the exactly, you know, like what's the Lord of the Rings, like you have to be careful, you know, when you step out the door, not to lose your feet, you know, like kind of you never know where your feet are gonna take you, right? The Frodo, like, and I just, there's so much in that, I think, because of this idea of,
Jeff Holman (28:11.889)
With all of the messages.
Jeff Holman (28:26.607)
Yes.
Jeff Holman (28:30.149)
Yes.
Meghan Higney (28:36.984)
like the spiritual nature of be here now, of presencing, of earthing, of our feet and our connection and what that does for our presence in our bodies actually being meaningful in terms of how we're carrying and running our energy in this world. I could go on about that forever, but might get too geeky.
Jeff Holman (28:40.954)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (28:57.755)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (29:02.336)
You
Meghan Higney (29:03.64)
But I do think there's a there there. So if brands are picking up on that, or if the consumer is, then I think that's great.
Jeff Holman (29:05.584)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (29:10.243)
Yeah, that's you're saying all of this and I think it's reflecting back and I'm just I'm literally sitting here saying to myself, I'm sitting in a boot right now with a broken foot. We just talked about it and not being able to, you know, I've got a good I've got a really good attitude about it, but it's not being able to run, not being able to play tennis or soccer or mountain bike or, you know, snowboard like I would normally do, except there's really no snow here this year in Utah to do a lot of
Meghan Higney (29:21.634)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (29:32.344)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (29:39.697)
Like you're making me reflect on all of the movement and activities and relationship things that I do with people that I am not doing right now. so, you know.
Meghan Higney (29:40.098)
Mhm.
Meghan Higney (29:52.888)
Yes, yes. That literally your feet enable, you know? It's literally and it's always both and with the feet. It's like your grounded energy enabling your feet and actually where they are and how they're moving enabling, you know? It's the, yeah.
Jeff Holman (29:57.464)
Literally, yep. I've been...
Jeff Holman (30:10.629)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (30:17.093)
Now, there's maybe a whole episode there for the power of feet and movement. But I want to hear, what were some of the things when you started Message, what were some of the skills you brought into Message?
Meghan Higney (30:19.982)
I know, I know, I know. Yeah.
Meghan Higney (30:29.934)
Yeah, you know, I love that question because I think it actually relates to the hesitation to build Message question because when I started Message, I really identified with, of course, all of my finance and analytical background, right? Which then took me to be a pretty dangerous paid marketer, right? Because it turned out, now we're in this e-commerce world where
Jeff Holman (30:55.174)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (30:59.318)
I can make the most amount of money from these platforms where understanding dollars, unit economics, all of the stats that go into that is really beneficial. And then I really am a systems thinker. So operationally, I was very strong thinking about scaled systems, then executing into that. I really enjoyed what I never had or held in the businesses that I had supported in the past.
was the creative side. And I had actually worked with people who were like, you are such a bad ass and I'm so grateful that you're not a creative or else you would go and do your own thing. Yes, yes, yes. I'm so glad, exactly. I'm so glad that you're, and by the way, we're all creative.
Jeff Holman (31:45.65)
I see. It was like, I'm so glad you have a gap in your skill set. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to keep you here. did I? I'm sorry. Did I just hear an S.O.? I. Yes, yes.
Meghan Higney (32:00.242)
Yes, Mexico, yeah, Mexico. Yeah, and I mean, so many things to say about that, right? Because while we could sit there and be like, everyone is creative, come on. I mean, it was a real, it really sat with me, right? And there wasn't a lot that I could look at in terms of what I had done up to that point that validated the idea that I was a creative, you know?
Jeff Holman (32:17.733)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (32:30.678)
I started to engage with that very old book, The Artist's Way, mean, Rick Rubin, his latest modern version of that. And I felt it in my heart, but in terms of my output, that wasn't my genius up to that point. And so that was a real fear of mine, which it turns out when you burr the brand that you care about and that mattered to you and that came to you in your dreams and you couldn't get away from.
Jeff Holman (32:46.384)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (32:59.554)
There is no world that you can't bring the creative energy to that one needs. But I think what I had really brought was a lot of strategy and just a lot of the pieces in place to execute. It's not hard for me to look at the numbers and say,
Jeff Holman (33:01.924)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (33:17.201)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (33:21.536)
my goodness, we need to start shipping these things since we have to air out of Portugal. We got to get them out of shoe boxes because I can't afford that. Like that's very natural to me. It was not very natural to say, you know, here's how I want this to look and feel. It's in my brain. I know the world, but here's how we're going to put that into every touch point of this brand.
Jeff Holman (33:29.743)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (33:41.329)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (33:46.392)
Well, so what was the status of the business or where was it at when you finally said to yourself, you know what, I'm not just an analytical operator. I'm actually doing the full skill set. I'm a creative too. I'm a fully skilled entrepreneur. Did you have a team? Were you leading a team? Or was this early in the formation and development of company or this take a while?
Meghan Higney (33:56.974)
Mm.
Meghan Higney (34:03.244)
Mm, mm, mm.
Meghan Higney (34:14.272)
Yep, It was fully in the pre-launch ideation. I really saw like, this is what I'm meant to be doing. It was coming really naturally to me with the right people on board. I was really quickly learning, OK, how my creative is translated is with someone who has this skill set.
Jeff Holman (34:25.659)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (34:37.158)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (34:41.846)
all the things we know we could talk about forever, but how the strength of just knowing what you should not be doing. And I was lucky enough at that point to have some folks from my network come around it who were just so special and helped me to birth it. But I really saw that I had the capacity to find those people, give them the direction we needed, encourage them, challenge them. It wasn't easy. If I had money, I think I could have
Jeff Holman (35:05.253)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (35:09.858)
kept a lot of them around for longer. It was not easy to kind of have to then resource it yourself in kind of scrappy ways. But yeah, was, the pre-launch was so fun. I've heard some entrepreneurs say that and I'm like, if you know, know kind of thing. It's like before you put the baby out in the world, I'm sure there's some good like infant metaphor there, but.
Jeff Holman (35:16.282)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (35:25.05)
Was it?
Jeff Holman (35:38.35)
Mm hmm. Well, how did that go for you then? like, how did you go from the pre launch? And did it go well? And did you know, like early on that, hey, this is gonna work? Was it like, how did you get your well to put another metaphor in place? How did how did you know when you hit your stride?
Meghan Higney (35:38.67)
it's just so juicy. You know? Yeah.
Meghan Higney (35:52.738)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (35:57.87)
No, yes, we're going to get all the puns going. You know, we launched April 5th of 2023. And the launch article was a fast company article that said the Birkenstock of athleisure question mark. And
Jeff Holman (36:16.337)
Hmm.
Meghan Higney (36:20.366)
It went from there. And I was really prepared for, you know, I was very eyes wide open about just because you built it doesn't mean they come, you know? And as I alluded, I was ready for a super, yeah, super slow, super slow, like, oh, here's gonna be the interesting piece. So I was ready for it to be slow.
Jeff Holman (36:32.603)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (36:35.973)
So you were ready for building, were ready for persevering and...
Meghan Higney (36:47.97)
But then I believed that with some data points that we were going to get over probably the first quarter to first half of our year, that I would be able to bring in interesting money, interesting meaning aligned capital in order to resource us to grow thoughtfully. So not let's raise a big round.
Jeff Holman (36:48.145)
Uh-huh.
Jeff Holman (37:05.636)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (37:14.894)
But again, we launched April 5th of 2023. And to ground people in that time, there had been some very big e-commerce IPO flops. Like nobody wanted to look at consumer. And so I was both surprised by the product market fit that was validated immediately. I knew this customer.
Jeff Holman (37:18.448)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (37:31.291)
Right.
Jeff Holman (37:38.149)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (37:42.742)
I knew she did not want to buy another Birkenstock. I knew she wanted to be wearing something different than her neighbor. I knew she was spending money on her athleisure outfit and that what she was putting on her feet to run out the door or, you know, maybe having to lace up on her feet to run out the door to then take off to do the thing she was going to was not like bringing her joy, was not comfortable on her feet, wasn't...
Jeff Holman (37:51.611)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (38:10.138)
Hmm.
Meghan Higney (38:10.464)
wonderful for her wardrobe, right? I just knew. I didn't know that it was going to be reflected back to me as quickly as it was, but then I also didn't know that no investor was going to care.
Jeff Holman (38:22.873)
Yeah, because that's a whole different problem. I mean, it's an awesome, awesome surprise that your that your brand takes off quickly. And then a shock to the system when investor interest doesn't follow on just as quickly, right?
Meghan Higney (38:31.299)
Right.
Meghan Higney (38:36.46)
Right. Like, that's great. Talk to me when you're five million. It's like, great. The path from here to there as an inventory consumer brand is
Jeff Holman (38:40.826)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (38:47.621)
Yeah, it's just cash. I mean, just the cash flow issues of keeping inventory and stock at the right levels at the right time, especially for e-commerce brands like that's that in and of itself is maybe the biggest puzzle to to success. Right. So.
Meghan Higney (39:00.462)
100%. I right now, yes, you know.
Jeff Holman (39:03.055)
Yeah, well, so it took off. I'm curious, and you're seeing some success, how did you manage the investment or lack of investment issues? Did it change your strategy that you had envisioned? And if so, how?
Meghan Higney (39:22.254)
Not quickly enough. It did not change my strategy quickly enough. You know, that I can reflect on and say, I was a little, in hindsight, I can say I was kind of stubborn. I was feeling like a bit of a chip. I was like, this is bullshit. Like I've ran other consumer brands and I haven't seen some of these numbers. And so it was like the should, you know, instead of what was happening. When I finally softened into the reality at hand,
Jeff Holman (39:37.445)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (39:44.699)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (39:52.054)
and took much of the business on, you know, for myself, my partner came in and started helping me. That's a whole nother story. That works great for some people. It was not the thing for us, but we were like, you know, willing to do anything. Yeah, I had to kind of hard pivot and totally change how I thought about the people part of the business, how I thought about supporting my genius, but...
Jeff Holman (39:58.127)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (40:03.892)
Oh, yeah.
Meghan Higney (40:22.818)
very minimally across each of the fronts I needed to be supported on because I didn't have the resources really to do it.
Jeff Holman (40:29.059)
Where was the business at at this time? When you made this, when you were making this pivot.
Meghan Higney (40:32.621)
So.
Yeah, so I mean, we basically like in our first full year of operations, we did just over a million top line. And even by then, so it was like one three, I closed that first year at even by then I was having to like, in source everything. I had had a PR agency out of the gate, no PR. You know, I just couldn't afford it. And it's so crazy, Jeff, because it's like,
Jeff Holman (40:48.73)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (41:03.119)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (41:05.726)
It worked so well. I've never seen PR convert like it was converting for us. You people say, it's top of funnel. No, not for us. It was a converter because our customers looking, you know. So it was crushing and it was hard and it still is, honestly. You know, I'm right now, we'll kick off our big kind of spring summer season starts kind of mid-March is really when things start to take off.
Jeff Holman (41:11.322)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (41:16.155)
Wow.
Meghan Higney (41:34.956)
And in the past, I've sold out. I've just sold out within the first couple of months of our peak season. And so I can't really figure out where the top is. And this year, I tried to be aggressive and buy into more inventory, but it's just so hard with working cap. And so it remains tough, but now I've been in it enough to know when we're crushing, cash is rough.
Jeff Holman (41:38.95)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (41:53.264)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (42:03.362)
when we're not crushing as hard because we're out of season or whatever, cash is tough. So cash is tough is actually not the problem, it's the reality. And now how do we move within that reality? But yeah, it's been.
Jeff Holman (42:10.065)
Right.
Meghan Higney (42:19.402)
It's been a it's it's an interesting one because I have friends who raised like just before the markets really kind of tightened with respect to consumer. And I wonder sometimes like just what and I'm grateful for the journey that it's been and what it's forced me into and what I know it will mean for the longevity for the autonomy of our business. You know, perhaps the best forcing function ever, you know, in a few years will
Jeff Holman (42:28.966)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (42:40.207)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (42:47.502)
be talking and reflecting and laughing about that. But sometimes I find myself just, oh, what would it be like if I had some cash? Well, I know the answer. That's how I've built other brands, you know? So it's real. It's real.
Jeff Holman (42:56.305)
Yes. Well, they say, yeah, they say creativity loves constraints. I'm sure you've got some huge opportunities here with some cash constraints. What did this do to the way you thought about the business as you're saying to yourself, big launch, surprise. No investors, surprise. Reconfiguring the business to meet the cash needs.
Meghan Higney (43:04.45)
Yeah, totally. Totally, totally. That's accurate.
Meghan Higney (43:16.344)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (43:20.696)
Thanks.
Jeff Holman (43:25.115)
trying to hit the seasonal cycles and like, how is your thinking about the business and about leading the business in particular changed as you've run into these constraints?
Meghan Higney (43:40.674)
Yep. Well, actually, this is, it's so fun to have these conversations where you find yourself circling on a theme, right? This is sort of what I was alluding to before when I said it's the thing that you know, you know, and you say, but you don't necessarily do, right? That's what I was saying in our like pre-chat regarding whatever, space and empty time, you know, for thinking.
Jeff Holman (43:49.914)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (44:06.0)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (44:10.326)
With this, was really like cash is flipping king. I have told people, so many people that from the investor seat, I've encouraged that from the presidency. And here I am as a founder pushing top line growth, thinking about my margin profile and how I'll be sustainably profitable when, look at how many people want this. And so I can get there in 12 months, let's just go. And it's like, Meg.
Jeff Holman (44:16.197)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (44:34.821)
Right.
Jeff Holman (44:39.045)
the vanity metrics, the growth metrics that aren't necessarily the same as unit economics, right?
Meghan Higney (44:44.694)
Totally. And again, I could, I, and maybe this is me like, whatever, fooling myself into that thinking, but I was doing it from a place of, you know, top line, but with a margin, you know, knowing my margins and thinking about sustainable bottom line, but cash, working cap, different question now, you know? So yeah, it's, that's really what I'm stepping into this year with, which is like,
Jeff Holman (44:59.215)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (45:12.982)
maybe it's painful to leave something on the table, but cash is king. And that's what gives me the autonomy to keep doing this. And I also have so much more just belief and faith in seeing how people have come into this business at the right time, that the same is going to happen with respect to capital, whether or not that be bank finance, whether that be equity. Like, it's not a fear, graspy feeling anymore. It's a...
Jeff Holman (45:34.193)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (45:43.262)
Okay, I just want to make it as enjoyable to get to that point as possible. And when I'm constantly sweating cash, you know, in the bank every month, less fun.
Jeff Holman (45:57.254)
Yeah. Well, tell me, because it seems like there's a lot of tensions in our discussion in the sense that, you know, something is happening one way, the great launch, but the lack of investment capital. I mean, these tensions just show up and they're themes in our businesses and our lives even, I guess. You're describing one that has me really intrigued and that is, you know, there is friction and pressure in your business because of
Meghan Higney (46:10.318)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep.
Jeff Holman (46:27.001)
All the factors, right? But you're describing to me, it sounds like about the same time that that's happening, you're starting to learn the autonomy or the, is it self-care? it, you know, the earth grounding? Like, were these things actually happening around the same time or were they related if they were?
Meghan Higney (46:43.863)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (46:50.509)
I mean.
This is where your question about, you know, as your confidence, how has your confidence changed or grown? You know, and I said everywhere, every day, it's this. It's because the answer is one is necessary for the other. I wouldn't be able to still be here talking to you after everything. And I think this is often the story with many entrepreneurs. I don't think I'm unique, but after everything I described,
Jeff Holman (47:01.242)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (47:22.934)
If I wasn't able to both find the deep gratitude and the lessons that my business has been serving me up, the life lessons, right, on this journey, if I didn't find that as like, what a flippant gift, and if I didn't allow that, if I didn't sit in the presence and the awareness for that muscle to build, okay, okay, I'm figuring this, I'm learning, okay, this isn't the end of the world, we got that, you then I would have peaced out.
Jeff Holman (47:29.797)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (47:54.193)
Yeah. I don't think everybody would respond that way. Like it sounds like what you're describing is like literally refiner's fire or the pressure and you're coming out of this pressure saying, hey, this is actually making me better and I'm going to be fine. Not everybody does that. Some people don't take that perspective, right? What is it about you? Because you said early on that you were like hesitant.
Meghan Higney (47:55.053)
You know?
Meghan Higney (48:02.744)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (48:09.964)
is making me better. Yep.
Mmm. Mmm. Mmm.
Jeff Holman (48:23.474)
you know, to really come into this and I guess really follow what you thought was maybe your destiny in a way. And now that you have and it's not going quite right, instead of saying, maybe this isn't my destiny, maybe I mistook what I thought was going to happen, you're saying, no, this is like, this is who I am and I love it. Maybe not all the problems, but I love where I'm at now. That's unique. That's a...
Meghan Higney (48:24.152)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (48:30.808)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes.
Meghan Higney (48:40.706)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (48:51.547)
People probably tell you this all the time, but that seems like a really, a really deep quality that other people could really benefit from.
Meghan Higney (48:57.55)
Thank you. Yeah, you know, I do, do often hear people, they kind of package it or reflect it back in different ways, but it's something around this idea that I think it's different than the growth mindset, but it is this idea that like, I, I just relish growth in this lifetime. And so if that's served up for me through strife,
and difficult circumstance, but same, same, like I believe with, know, surrender and trust, like ultimately we're gonna pop through the other side and always, always stronger when we do, you know, back to Spanish, you know, love certain phrases just are better in other languages, know, vale la pena, like it's worth it, you know, it's worth it, it's worth it, it's right, like.
Jeff Holman (49:48.204)
Mm hmm. Yep. Worth the pain. Worth the pain. Yeah.
Meghan Higney (49:55.434)
My capacity for joy, my just like ability to be in deep gratitude is so beyond where I even was two years ago. And if you've looked at my bank account, you'd be like, girl, impressive, you know, because you pushed it to the edge. And the things I used to think gave me peace and security are now things that I don't.
Jeff Holman (50:13.106)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (50:24.536)
have in this moment, but I have a muscle that...
those things would never have gotten me, which is despite what that account looks like, I have, I just feel like I have such deep, I don't know, love for this life, I guess.
Jeff Holman (50:34.287)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (50:46.65)
Yeah. Did this, is this an influence on moving? I mean, is part of this, part of this play into why you moved to Mexico and like, that because you've now, you've got all this forcing function with your business, no easy task to navigate that even in good, on good days, there's lots of pressure. And when there are struggles, even more pressure and you're like, okay, well, maybe we should, maybe we should move to, to a new country and
Meghan Higney (50:57.75)
Yeah, yeah. Yes.
Meghan Higney (51:10.232)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (51:15.405)
Yep.
Jeff Holman (51:15.634)
had you been to had you lived in Mexico before? So you guys just said, yeah.
Meghan Higney (51:18.766)
No, no, no, No, we were Bay Area like almost 20 years and it was 100 % a forcing function. I had two kids in private school and I had a mortgage in the Bay and I was no longer taking a salary. And yeah, and I got to a point where I felt like I was, I felt like I was drowning. I felt really scared. I felt like I was going to fail my family. And then
Jeff Holman (51:31.483)
Mm.
So you said, well, where can we go and keep the business?
Jeff Holman (51:43.25)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (51:48.398)
I somehow, know, whatever, the universe, I availed myself of the idea that this could be possible. And San Miguel kind of dropped into our orbit. And the craziest thing, Jeff, is that I had written, I found in a journal, I had seen a Conde Nast article that called San Miguel the top city in the world. And I had written a journal entry, what do I have to achieve in life in order to be able to live there?
Jeff Holman (52:16.858)
a journal like like how long ago?
Meghan Higney (52:18.732)
Like a private journal five years before them, before I launched Message, before I anything, I was dreaming and scheming about what liquidity from what equity I was going to need to like whatever in order to up and go to this magical wonderland. And the thing that got me there was the opposite was me putting everything into my business, everything on the line, and then being like, no, I can, I afford private school in the Bay for my children.
Jeff Holman (52:21.775)
Really?
Jeff Holman (52:30.396)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (52:36.562)
I was gonna say.
Jeff Holman (52:46.371)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (52:46.979)
This is the trip of life, right?
Jeff Holman (52:50.278)
Well, I think many of us right in this moment are saying, what else were in those journals? this stuff, you seem to have this idea 15 years ahead or five years ahead. We would all like to know what else should we know from your premonitions that you've had.
Meghan Higney (53:02.606)
No.
Meghan Higney (53:07.276)
Well, I think, I mean, the beautiful thing, I don't know, you know, where we're going to close, but like, I actually think the really beautiful thing is that we all have that, you know, if we slow down enough to listen, or to document to write whatever, like, I really think that our innate knowing is so, so potent, and that often we're moving too fast. Or we're not listening close enough. But when we do, it's right there. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (53:27.922)
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Holman (53:35.824)
Yeah, that's powerful. Well, and on that note, where do you think Message is headed in the next three to five years? And it may not be like you might have visions for it and it may or not go that direction. There's a lot of factors, but where would you like to see it be five years from now?
Meghan Higney (53:44.334)
Mmm.
Meghan Higney (53:51.16)
Yeah. Yeah.
Meghan Higney (53:57.122)
Yeah, Message five years from now, I really think it's an international brand. I think we go international earlier than most brands would for various reasons. We don't have to get into, but there's the analytical that makes sense in that. And then there's just this idea of where I am living now, where we're based, how we're going to start to bring the Message world to life. We produce in Portugal. It's going to really be through this lens of
celebrating these incredible destinations, you know, where we are birthed and housed, but then also where the consumer can go and explore. So I think, you we will be an international brand. In a couple of years, we'll be a brand that is more prominent in wholesale. So people in the US will be able to find us in a few locations offline, which is cool. People will be able to touch and feel, you know, majority of our sales right now are online.
Jeff Holman (54:35.217)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (54:56.504)
for a shoe that when people put it on, they're like, whoa, this feels different. This is like a hug. So wholesale, we'll be able to touch and feel the consumer more. And I really think in the next couple of years, people, the consumers, we already have many happy consumers on a small scale, but I think they are going to understand why we're called Message. And I think in understanding that is where
Jeff Holman (55:01.424)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (55:25.708)
the message is going to get shared and where we're going to start to really build this world. Because I do think that brand is meaning. It's one in the same. And right now we have an amazing product that we've marketed and we haven't had a brand that we've shared. And I think when we do and when we showcase what this, you know, literally looks like in your life, moving through the places and spaces and how comfortable it is and how it uplifts your wardrobe and it looks better and it feels better, like
Jeff Holman (55:36.262)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (55:56.15)
It's a no brainer. It's fire. So in five years, I think you're going to see people around Utah in their messages and you're going to be like, I talked to that chick five years ago and she was cool. You know? Yeah.
Jeff Holman (55:58.503)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (56:08.634)
Yep. Yeah. I love it. I love it. And maybe I'll see it in Costco. You said you had done other brands with Costco, right? And I think if I'm not mistaken, I just saw, was there a Nike shoe, Nike Kirkland co-branding happening? just, I literally saw this like just yesterday or today. These days, I don't know if it's AI or something else. You have to look it up, but
Meghan Higney (56:19.67)
I
Meghan Higney (56:25.74)
Was there? No.
Meghan Higney (56:34.722)
Right, right. Is it real? I don't think Costco will be our, think, I mean, as early as this year, actually, I don't even know if I can say this, but we're gonna, Nordstrom just picked us up, which is fun. Like we've been very, very selective about wholesale, because it, as you know, it's a different business, really. And we're so under resourced, but I don't think Costco will be the first kind of big format place, but I think it'll be probably somewhere with like an outdoorsy cool, you know?
Jeff Holman (56:45.212)
Congratulations.
Jeff Holman (56:50.694)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (56:59.378)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (57:04.622)
I think there'll be more collaborations with other brands. That is where a lot of people find us. know, Message is just like a sexier slide. And so a lot of brands that don't touch shoes want to get involved, which is cool.
Jeff Holman (57:16.144)
Yeah.
Jeff Holman (57:21.102)
I love that. I'll be excited to see where this goes for you and for the brand. and on that note, what is a message that you would leave for people like you building brands, building companies, launching products? What would you tell them if they're a little bit behind you either in the process of their business or maybe in their attitude towards the constraints they're running up against?
Meghan Higney (57:23.246)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Meghan Higney (57:36.206)
Mmm.
Meghan Higney (57:41.922)
Mm-hmm.
Meghan Higney (57:46.267)
Mm, mm, yes.
Meghan Higney (57:52.878)
Feel free to listen to your knowing, you know, and yours and yours alone. I think it's so important to take in those outside experts, perspectives, what have you, but really metabolizing that and landing in your own truth because nobody, nobody is going to be able to hold the belief to build this business besides you. So you gotta get real clear on
what that is, where that lands. And if it's not, that's okay too, right? But if it is, then perceived problems are not problems, they're opportunities for learning, for, you know, pivots, and just keep coming back to that knowing that says, yeah, this is the thing, this is on track, even if it doesn't look like it, or this is what I'm supposed to be doing, or shit, I launched a brand and this isn't it. Both of those equally valid, just listen.
Jeff Holman (58:41.106)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (58:51.782)
Yeah, I love that. I love that so much. And the only last thing I would add is I hope on this upcoming Sunday, you'll go and you'll score a goal or two and think, OK, that's for Jeff because he can't run right now. I just scored a goal for Jeff.
Meghan Higney (58:53.539)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (59:08.206)
Oh, Jeff, I so will. if you, please, I mean, send me some, I would love to get you some slides. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm not kidding when I tell you, yeah, I'm not kidding when I tell you my girlfriend was here in Mexico, she broke her toe. She liked her Message slides, but she didn't wear them like everywhere in her life. You know, she wore them, you know, the ins and outs and all around. She won't go anywhere without them now because post toe break, she was like, this is the only shoe I can wear.
Jeff Holman (59:14.636)
that sounds phenomenal. Something hugging you said something about hugging your feet. Yeah.
Jeff Holman (59:24.114)
Hmm.
Jeff Holman (59:33.233)
Mm.
Jeff Holman (59:36.657)
Yeah.
Meghan Higney (59:36.768)
molds to your feet. She was like, I get it. It was a really cool, like close consumer case study for me, but it was after her break. So let's get you a pair and see what you think.
Jeff Holman (59:45.91)
wow. I would love it. They're going to have to compete against my ultra smart wool collaborative shoes I just bought. I only get to wear one of them ever right now, but no, that sounds phenomenal. I love it. love it. Meghan, it's been so much fun having you on the show. You've got such a cool journey. I think in addition to the journey you've been on, the perspective you have about your journey is just as important.
Meghan Higney (59:53.422)
Great.
Right, right, right. Well, this will be your slide version. Yeah. good to meet you, Jeff. Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
Jeff Holman (01:00:14.405)
So thank you for sharing that.
Meghan Higney (01:00:16.226)
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Jeff Holman (01:00:18.274)
And thanks to our audience for joining us again on the Breakout CEO Podcast.
