In this episode of The Breakout CEO, Jeff Holman sits down with John Richards—founder of Startup Ignition, longtime mentor, investor, and former BYU entrepreneurship professor. John traces his journey from pre-med to pioneering the first internet yellow pages, then distills decades of pattern recognition into actionable rules for scaling CEOs: validate ruthlessly, nail it → build it → scale it, codify your sales system before hiring a team, and apply lean startup principles even in the growth phase. The conversation also spotlights Utah’s uniquely supportive startup ecosystem and why choosing the right business model (product over pure services) can mean the difference between plateau and breakout.
The moment: Mid-1990s, while running a thriving print yellow pages publisher, John is told point-blank by a young technologist: “The internet is going to put you out of business.” Rather than defend the status quo, John leaned into the signal. Within months he put his directory data online, gathered publishers nationwide, and ultimately took the venture public.
The turn: John’s edge wasn’t just timing—it was pattern recognition built from staying close to technology and experimenting at the edges (e.g., early 4‑color ad printing, data systems). When the paradigm shift arrived, he recognized the pattern quickly and moved before the herd.
What he learned:
Advice for scaling CEOs:
Listen to the full episode for John’s detailed playbook, including how he assembled partners, navigated the dot‑com waves, and translated hard‑earned lessons into a rubric founders can use today.
John Richards’ journey is a masterclass in staying close to disruption, recognizing decisive patterns, and turning validation into durable scale. If you’re a CEO in SaaS, ecommerce, or tech-enabled B2B, take the lean habits that got you to PMF and carry them forward. Nail it. Build it. Then scale it. And codify the pieces that only you can do today so your team can repeat them tomorrow.
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John Richards is Founder & CEO of Startup Ignition. He's also an investor, mentor, and former BYU entrepreneurship professor who has helped thousands of founders navigate from idea to execution to scale.
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/johnrichards
Startup Ignition is an intensive entrepreneur bootcamp that trains founders to validate, launch, and scale using lean, practical frameworks—so they avoid common pitfalls and build on solid foundations.
Website: startupignition.com
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Jeff Holman is a CEO advisor, legal strategist, and founder of Intellectual Strategies. With years of experience guiding leaders through complex business and legal challenges, Jeff equips CEOs to scale with confidence by blending legal expertise with strategic foresight. Connect with him on LinkedIn.
Intellectual Strategies provides innovative legal solutions for CEOs and founders through its fractional legal team model. By offering proactive, integrated legal support at predictable costs, the firm helps leaders protect their businesses, manage risk, and focus on growth with confidence.
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The Breakout CEO podcast brings you inside the pivotal moments of scaling leaders. Each week, host Jeff Holman spotlights breakout stories of scaling CEOs—showing how resilience, insight, and strategy create pivotal inflection points and lasting growth.
Listen and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform:
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Want to be a guest—or know a scaling CEO with a breakout story to share? Apply directly at go.intellectualstrategies.com.
00:00 — A Career Built on Mentorship
Why John shifted from operating to mentoring and investing—and why teaching founders still fires the dopamine. He’s mentored thousands through BYU, BoomStartup, and Startup Ignition, and sees mentorship as an accelerant for pattern recognition and decision quality.
09:06 — Breakout Signal: The Internet Will Disrupt Print
A young technologist warns John that the internet will obsolete his core business. John responds by prototyping the first internet yellow pages, rallying ~40 publishers, and ultimately going public—proof that early conviction plus execution can reset your trajectory.
17:59 — Pattern Recognition as a Superpower
Decades of operating and investing taught John to spot patterns early—and to know when not to overfit the past. That judgment allows him to help founders avoid common traps and move faster with fewer mistakes.
24:57 — Choosing the Right Business Model (Dustin Robbins Story)
Inside Startup Ignition, Dustin arrived set on a services play (video + SEO). Day one validation flipped the decision: a simple productized idea—Corporate Traditions (holiday turkey certificates for employers)—had real scalability. He went all‑in and built a high‑8‑figure revenue business.
31:41 — The Hidden Step: Build Infrastructure Before You Scale
Don’t jump straight from validated PMF to headcount and spend. Build the foundation first—systems, seats, and scoreboards—so scale doesn’t collapse your operation.
36:15 — Codify the Sales System
Founders win with improvisation; new AEs can’t. Document the ICP, discovery map, talk track, offer construction, objection handling, proof kit, and handoff SLAs. Then hire and ramp.
